... they received a generic debuff which increased their all their damage taken by ~30%, which lasted for around 90 seconds and stacks?
Please keep in mind this applies to avoidable attacks ONLY.
The general theory is that if it's an attack to be avoided, you get this debuff to make sure you don't ignore it... because while the damage alone is quite nasty, it's quite likely to one-shot you if your stacks get high enough. Or in the case of tanks, it could mean you won't be able to survive the rest of the unavoidable damage that you take as a tank; yes, tanks would not get a pass on this mechanic.
Unavoidable damage is unavoidable damage, but damage that should be avoided? Maybe throw in some obvious visual cues, be it a mix between ground markers or some other visual cue; maybe just a short-duration ground marker after the other visual cue, if only to tell the people caught in the attack where it actually hits.
Oh, and lastly... this applies to EVERY difficulty. For ALL fights.
... after you reach the level cap, I'm not that mean.
But yes, even in LFR would be dealing with this.
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I wonder, does this sound mercilessly cruel and unforgiving? Or does it sound like something which encourage/force players to actually do the mechanics?
In any case, what I described was the "Vulnerability" mechanics from FFXIV.
It works exactly as noted above; fail a mechanic, you get a stack of Vulnerability and your damage taken goes up. 90 seconds is a fairly long time to be taking extra damage, but one or two stacks is general survivable (though anything more than one stack gets rather hairy for a tank, especially when put up against the various "tank buster" attacks which most bosses have). If you hit three or more stacks, start dodging like you never dodged before!... most because there's a solid chance most of the mechanics could one-shot you even at full health. Fortunately, if you survive long enough and don't get hit again, the debuff can fall off completely and you don't have to worry so much anymore.
... and it's pretty much present in ALL of the level-cap content of the most recent expansion. Including several mandatory story-mode bosses, which is the lowest difficulty by default.
Just about every fight, someone will get hit by something; they'll live, but the errors really start to add up after a while. A few fights can be rather notorious for this, especially when the attack essentially covers the whole room and you have to watch where the attack will hit FIRST... so you can run there after the attack lands and be safe from the rest of it.
Perhaps this mechanic is better suited for FFXIV, which has been described as "Dance or Die" on quite a few occasions... but yes, it's something which does encourage you to play the game properly. It pretty much becomes second nature, to be honest; even when the attack is essentially harmless, you'll dodge it anyhow.
I just have to wonder how well it would go in WoW...
... probably less than cordially, to be honest.
It would aid in killing WoW so I am sure they have it on the white board.
It would be fantastic but I think they'd have do what FFXIV did and reboot the game from the ground up for it to work properly. I don't think wows engine was designed with that in mind so I have no idea if it'd work. Latency and such.
But I love this in FFXIV, not necessarily the vulnerability thing but the way the aoes work, I love it. Always wished wow followed on that. (And many other things but...)
But I love this in FFXIV, not necessarily the vulnerability thing but the way the aoes work, I love it. Always wished wow followed on that. (And many other things but...)
What if every time someone failed an avoidable mechanic, the party leader got penalized instead for ineffective coaching?
10/28/2018 10:32 PMPosted by Raelhorn... they received a generic debuff which increased their all their damage taken by ~30%, which lasted for around 90 seconds and stacks?
Please keep in mind this applies to avoidable attacks ONLY.
+1. Also, all damage is avoidable.
Why implement a mechanic like this that would ultimately punish the healer more than the person who stood in the bad (assuming they are not one and the same)? If you want people to pay more attention to their surroundings, then the debuff would need to be specific to their role, ie: 10% reduced dps for 10 seconds, etc.
10/28/2018 10:42 PMPosted by Aliandrin10/28/2018 10:32 PMPosted by Raelhorn... they received a generic debuff which increased their all their damage taken by ~30%, which lasted for around 90 seconds and stacks?
Please keep in mind this applies to avoidable attacks ONLY.
+1. Also, all damage is avoidable.
...No it's not?
Do you have any idea how many raid mechanics over the years amounts to "Boss does X amount of damage to the entire raid. Healers must heal through it"?
Or how many mechanics amount to "Random player is given X DoT ability. It can not be removed and remains the entire encounter"?
I can think of encounters in Uldir the have one or both of these things.
Yeah this would just punish healers even more who already have to deal with said players. Reduced dps? A possibility but still unlikely to change anything.
Punishing bad play tends to fall on the healers.
Yeah this would suck for healers so much, people would figure out how much extra damage they think they should be able to take and make the healers cover it.
DPS would need to lose DPS for getting hit, maybe drain resources like energy/rage or lock spells for 5s-10s. It could vary based on what the attack is or by class.
DPS would need to lose DPS for getting hit, maybe drain resources like energy/rage or lock spells for 5s-10s. It could vary based on what the attack is or by class.
You do understand that in FFXIV, the healers can continually rez people, where as in WoW they have rather long CD's. Granted FFXIV is also much more lenient in terms of practically every ability is telegraphed.
The problem is you're wanting to make it so people take more damage in situations where damage is already rather high. Your idea is just going to end up causing more wipes in reality simply because several people will die from the debuff increasing their damage taken, and the rest of the group unable to meet the enrage timers because of that.
The problem is you're wanting to make it so people take more damage in situations where damage is already rather high. Your idea is just going to end up causing more wipes in reality simply because several people will die from the debuff increasing their damage taken, and the rest of the group unable to meet the enrage timers because of that.
What if every time someone failed an avoidable mechanic they took damage from the avoidable mechanic?
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Just make every avoidable mechanic one-shot you if you fail it. Done.
10/28/2018 10:39 PMPosted by MortexIt would be fantastic but I think they'd have do what FFXIV did and reboot the game from the ground up for it to work properly. I don't think wows engine was designed with that in mind so I have no idea if it'd work. Latency and such.
A good point, though WoW has used something similar in the past... strangely enough, mostly dust clouds rather than the projected textures seen in FFXIV.
10/28/2018 10:39 PMPosted by MortexBut I love this in FFXIV, not necessarily the vulnerability thing but the way the aoes work, I love it. Always wished wow followed on that. (And many other things but...)
To be honest, I don't like the Vulnerability mechanic.
... it's not fun, and it usually means that the fight will be less forgiving.
BUT, I would say it's a respected mechanic. Between it being everywhere, and it simply encouraging you to NOT be stupid... well, it can be dealt with.
10/28/2018 10:42 PMPosted by Aliandrin+1. Also, all damage is avoidable.
Not quite. MOST damage is avoidable.
A few room-wide AoEs to prevent the healers from falling asleep is necessary... assuming people are actually avoiding the damage they should. Though FFXIV really likes to go overkill with how many simultaneous AoEs it can get off at once.
Dodging one such attack is easy.
Three at once? Not so easy.
10/28/2018 10:45 PMPosted by FaybelleWhy implement a mechanic like this that would ultimately punish the healer more than the person who stood in the bad (assuming they are not one and the same)? If you want people to pay more attention to their surroundings, then the debuff would need to be specific to their role, ie: 10% reduced dps for 10 seconds, etc.
On the contrary, it's not to pressure the healer... though it doesn't make their job easier. Quite simply, the mechanic WILL kill off the player who fails to dodge the attacks, regardless of how much the healer tries.
10% reduced DPS would only hurt those who care about maximizing their performance... while NO ONE likes being able to do nothing, on account of taking a dirt nap.
Cool.. What a great idea to make raiding even more toxic.
Looks at post, wonders if OP has ever raided at all, looks at armory, sees zero bosses killed even on LFR.
Please never have an opinion about this game again.
Please never have an opinion about this game again.
10/28/2018 10:51 PMPosted by MaizonoYou do understand that in FFXIV, the healers can continually rez people, where as in WoW they have rather long CD's. Granted FFXIV is also much more lenient in terms of practically every ability is telegraphed.
It's a bit more complicated:
- Rezzing players applies a stacking debuff, reducing health and other primary stats by 25%; stacking up to 3 times (at least). Never seen a 4th stack. Like the Vulnerability debuff, it lasts quite a while (60 or 90 seconds), but it does wear off eventually.
- Rezzing a player has hearty 8-10 second cast time. The "Swiftcast" ability can make this instant once every 2 or 3 minutes. During this time, the healer is NOT healing the rest of the group; pre-applied HoTs not withstanding.
- Then there's the grand-daddy of all battle rezzes, the Limit Break level 3 for healers. Full party brought back to full health, without the aforementioned debuff to health & stats. That being said, the limit break gauge is shared by the party and takes a while to fill up. It's extremely unlikely it will get used more than once in your typical encounter, and a healer needs to be alive to use it in the first place.
Still, the extra rezzes are one of the benefits in FFXIV; can't deny that.
WoW's rezzes tend to be instant, and the charges are limited for most fights.
Oh, and FFXIV is not more lenient. Better telegraphed, yes... but pretty much every high level fight starts looks like it came out of the Mage Tower.
10/28/2018 10:51 PMPosted by MaizonoThe problem is you're wanting to make it so people take more damage in situations where damage is already rather high. Your idea is just going to end up causing more wipes in reality simply because several people will die from the debuff increasing their damage taken, and the rest of the group unable to meet the enrage timers because of that.
Applying it retroactively would have this issue, yes.
Tuning adjustments would be necessary, though we're mostly looking at the principle here.
10/28/2018 10:56 PMPosted by RaelhornOn the contrary, it's not to pressure the healer... though it doesn't make their job easier. Quite simply, the mechanic WILL kill off the player who fails to dodge the attacks, regardless of how much the healer tries.
10% reduced DPS would only hurt those who care about maximizing their performance... while NO ONE likes being able to do nothing, on account of taking a dirt nap.
Then you still are ultimately punishing the group for a single person's mistake because they will be less likely to achieve their goal when that person takes a dirt nap. If you want people to care enough to take personal responsibility, then they need personal consequences.
This is one of those things that is obviously a bad idea just straight off the bat. It makes me wonder if OP is trolling based on his lack apparent lack end game experience.
So to the OP if I treat you seriously, no there is a reason we don't have 1 shot mechanics in regular dungeons and other random content. Just let people get through the dungeon and then never have to deal with these people once they do more difficult content.
So to the OP if I treat you seriously, no there is a reason we don't have 1 shot mechanics in regular dungeons and other random content. Just let people get through the dungeon and then never have to deal with these people once they do more difficult content.
10/28/2018 10:56 PMPosted by RaelhornOn the contrary, it's not to pressure the healer... though it doesn't make their job easier. Quite simply, the mechanic WILL kill off the player who fails to dodge the attacks, regardless of how much the healer tries.
Thats how cata worked, I got vote kicked 5 times in 4.0 every single time by guild groups. Including when i "faked" a death log showing the tank stood in fire till dead.
Faked according to them. According to the tank his death was because I did no heals, Death log clearly showed a flash heal less then 2 seconds before death.