Horde druids aren’t under such an obligation though. When war breaks out druids on both sides are free to return to their former faction to fight for their people and then return later without fear of being expelled. Horde druids are allowed to take up arms against the Kaldorei people just like Malfurion was allowed to take up arms against the Horde to defend Teldrassil.
You’re trying to paint the night elves as a ruling class and the rest of the Circle as vassal members, more or less. That just isn’t how we’ve seen the Circle function.
Exactly. Horde druids are free leave the circle and go deal with Horde business but they do not do it under Cenarion Circle banner. They are just lucky enough they are allowed back in but it’s just because of how nice Cenarion members are.
It works both ways. Outside of Moonglade, Horde and Alliance Druids are free to enact the endless cycle of predator and prey. You put on dangerous airs when you think that the Cenarian Circle exists on your terms alone.
Hyjal and Moonglade are still Night Elf Territories so Cenarion Circle would still be mostly a Night Elf Organization. Or is it now possible for Tauren and Trolls to kick out Night elves from those lands?
I’m not saying I want this to happen because I really like Tauren but if the of a schism in the Circle the most likely outcome would be the exodus of non elven druids out of Hyjal/Moonglade.
On paper they may all have the same authority but at the end of the day it wouldn’t work that way.
Hyjal and Moonglade are night elven territories, but an organization that works out of a nation’s borders doesn’t necessarily belong to that nation. Maybe the night elves could expel the Horde druids from Moonglade, but they can’t just expel the Horde druids from the Cenarion Circle. The organization has a multitude of other bases that the Horde druids could work out of.
Hyjal is even more iffy because while it is night elven land on paper the true owners of Mount Hyjal are and have always been the wild gods. I can’t imagine they’d be very content with a huge number of their personal followers, many of whom fought and lost people they care about in defense of Nodrassil twice, suddenly being barred from tending to their shrines because of some mortal decree from a night elf supremacist.
Certainly not against the Alliance alone, you’re right. But this time, these druids have helped to destroy - pollute - corrupt nature itself through the actions of the Horde.
Fandral did much less and was an enemy of all the Druids and Wild Gods, what do you think about the Druids who were involved in this?
Malfurion sent most of the druids south to deal with the giant sword in the planet and we never see a Horde druid involved in the War of Thorns.
Fandral tried to usher Ragnaros into the world so he could burn down Nodrassil and then set fire to the entire planet. That is so much worse than anything the Horde has done.
I am not talking about the War of Thorns in the first place. This thread isn’t about that.
There were druids who were fought, which caused a big outcry in the forum here.
The Horde actively helped - and with that also the druids of the Horde - to feed the Jailer and to give him more and more power. The difference to Fandral is that Fandral was prevented from doing so, the Horde has already managed to achieve its “goal”.
Whether you talk about it or not, it has to be seen in the big picture, since it’s about how Horde druids are being looked at right now. Surely the circle won’t kick out all Horde members, but it wouldn’t be wrong to find out how much you have been involved in WOT.
Proof? The only Horde druids I’ve seen all expansion were either in Silithus and Hyjal or Zen’Tabra, who was defending the Echo Isles from Zalazane.
The Horde druids weren’t involved. The Horde was tricked into helping the Jailer while Fandral did it willingly.
We don’t need another thread about Teldrassil. Also we see Horde and Alliance druids still working together to protect Nodrassil from the azerite elementals going crazy. There has been no suggestion that there’s a schism in the Circle like you’re suggesting.
Also I’d like to point out that my first post in this thread was one of positive cooperation and unity. But of course we can’t have that, can we? Gotta treat me like a second class druid and then condemn me as a villain for something I had no choice in.
Shatterspear War Camp and there were dead Tauren Druids lying around on the beach, so there were Druids there who fought on the side of the Horde. It was the whole horde that attacked, shamans, druids, sorcerers, warriors of different races.
After Teldrassil, things can no longer be as they once were. And even if I don’t want to talk about Teldrassil and the War of the Thorns in detail now, it’s just an event which no state of affairs allows as before.
I didn’t say anything about treating you as a second class druid, but said that the circle can and would investigate consistently what the participation in the war that led to the destruction of a world tree that was blessed, in addition to the corruption of Darkshore, has contributed to not preventing it and who killed Whisps, who are allies for the circle.
What is the treatment of a second class druid here?
Your link doesn’t go anywhere. I also didn’t do the War of Thorns so I can’t really confirm or deny if there were dead druids there.
But in the tie-in novels Malfurion sent the druids of the Cenarion Circle to Silithus. Runetotem and Baine also went south with a huge force of tauren and druids.
And we do see tauren and night elven druids working together in Silithus and Hyjal, meaning that whatever has happened between the Horde and Alliance the Cenarion Circle is staying united in the face of the planet potentially dying.
As for the second class druid comments. Being told your chosen class can or should be kicked out of the class faction feels pretty crummy. Especially after I just expressed my belief that the Horde and Alliance druids would feel united in their desire to help the night elven refugees.
I am getting incredibly tired of having to justify my race/class choice almost every thread about the Cenarion Circle that I enter.
Wait, I didn’t blame you for playing a troll druid o.0 nor did I make your request per se bad, or contradict you.
But after an event like what happened in BFA, it can’t go on like before, I’m sure you see it that way yourself.
A whole country contaminated, a world tree that was blessed, destroyed.
Thousands and thousands of whisps killed or hunted for fun. These are all too serious events.
Of course the druids are still working together, but do you really think you could still work together without any ulterior motive if you don’t know if he or she was involved? BFA was - as Blizzard himself said - a plot that had to force all factions to take a side, with all factions they really meant all
The earthen ring is just as much a case, do you really think one can now work together as carelessly as before in the earthen ring after shamans demonstrably used their powers to try to wipe out a whole culture that did not harm them?
That’s all very well, if you’d said “attempted genocide” or even “act of genocide” you’d still be wrong but you’d be less wrong. Because an attempted genocide or even an act of genocide has to be performed with the intent of wiping out an ethnic group or culture. Sylvanas certainly attempted to wipe out an ethnic group, but the Horde shaman that you’re talking about? Was there an intent by them to destroy Night Elves as a nation, or were they just fighting the good war that their leaders told them needed to be fought?
Unfortunately what you said is “wipe out a whole culture.” This statement is clear and lacking the broader scope of the UN definition you’re citing. It’s also just wrong. The culture exists, and with enough members that it’s able to fight back the Horde with the minimal help of the wolfmen who have been crashing on their respective couches.
Because the night elves fought back, not because the enemy stopped. See Darkshore and the death camps. The attempt and the intention existed, it only failed because of the opponent’s resistance.
Okay, but you still have brought the issue of intent into the discussion yourself. Did the Horde shaman actually try to wipe out a whole culture? Or did they simply firebomb a city based on the orders given to them?
the shamans were in this case part of the Horde that performed this act under the leadership of Sylvanas Windrunner. Even if they themselves are not the responsible leaders, they were part of the execution and without her doing it, this would not have happened like that
Fantastic, I agree with all of this but it says nothing about intent. To “try to destroy a whole culture” you need to intend to be trying to destroy a whole culture. To commit an act of genocide, you need to be trying to destroy a whole culture.
While we know Sylvanas’ intent, we can’t establish intent for the Horde’s shaman.
What do you think happens when you throw magic fire at a tree?
Did they do it on purpose to destroy Teldrassil with all the refugees? Yes. And even in a case of ordering, that is not a excuse.
And whether order or not, even SS soldiers were simply executed without a court order after the 2nd world war for particularly serious offences.
Even international law does not provide - if we stay with the UN, which you yourself mentioned - for the protection of these soldiers. They are just not condemned to genocide, but are executed or imprisoned in a military court which gets much less attention.
And I was still concerned that the cooperation after the events in BFA could never be the same again because the trust was destroyed, destroyed, how should a dwarf shaman behave who knows that one of these orc shamans could be responsible for the death of friends of him, burned miserably, or even share his family? How should a night elf druid behave if a troll or taure appears at a meeting of druids he supposedly saw or even really saw on the battlefield?
It’s not about justice, it’s about trust, which is the biggest damage Sylvanas would have done. By forcing all factions to choose sides, as Blizz explained at BlizzCon 2017, she has actually destroyed the only thing that takes time a very long time to heal, the spark of trust, and there’s no guarantee that that trust will ever be restored. While Blizz probably won’t pay any attention, Sylvana’s biggest damage would be an even more difficult collaboration to face future threats on an equal footing.
Some leaders like Anduin or Baine are exceptions, and most of the Alliance is suspicious or even downright frustrated and the horde is still too preoccupied with theimselves after bfa, understandable.