Mithonic, Renautaus, Luxio is a notorious poster here, they don’t argue in good faith and have shown very little growth over the years. She also has a little follower who was known as Micah but due to some friendly fire drama had to go under a new identity; Karestae.
There is some deep, deep Story forums lore here but the long story short of it is, ignore them. You wont find a good faith discussion here, when she runs out of strawmen and false equivalence fallacies thats when the ad hominems start.
As for Thadeus, you would have an easier time drawing water from stone. But at least he is sincere in his… opinions.
I believe the “dragons can’t reproduce anymore” bit specifically came from some book after Cataclysm, meant to coincide with the aspects losing their powers. IIRC, it came about because Metzen was tired of writing about dragons and wanted a way to softly push them out of focus in the story.
Not really, Zul’Jin is imo sympathetic antagonist, and yet both he and Amani constantly get shat on, because they have legitimate grievances against elves, and we cannot have that apparently.
We also have Defias Brotherhood and Van Cleefs who got the axe even if they also had legitimate grievances.
Garrosh had his supporters but he as much had his haters.
Nobody was also arguing that Arthas was a villain and he deserved to be killed off.
Nobody had issues with taking down Deathwing.
So I fail to see where do you see double standards which are associated purely on the sex of the character? My only impression was that writers simply have their pet characters and fav factions that they priotize to write. Not that they purposefully write somone off because it’s female character, so I find this take to be completely baseless.
Because how would you explain then the case of Vol’Jin who earned his position of Warchief, to be thrown so nonchalantly under the bus, becoming irrelevat the moment we met Sylvanas, and where even his death was more about her than him? How will you explain that even character says “Well I know it’s bollocks and you’re against it, I’m also personally against it, but script sais she has to lead, so she has to lead”.
Is it misguided misandry? Hatered for trolls? Or that guys wanted Warchief Sylvanas so badly? What would that be?
Additionally, We also killed plenty of characters that didn’t deserve their fate like Nazgrim, which is why his death was tragic. We raided places like Zuk’Farrak just for the fat loot and making situation of sand trolls even worse.
It’s one thing for players to argue over it, and another is the narrative around it.
Don’t you see a problem here? That the narrative went backwards to make Sylvanas not be reponsible for her actions? Making her have accountability of a child and removing her agency?
You make a good point about the Sylvanas novel removing Sylvanas’s agency but I don’t think that is enough of an excuse to kill her off. it actually makes her more victimized. I think that is the crux of the discourse around Sylvanas in a nutshell. If Sylvanas isn’t accountable for her crimes she is unable to get real justice for her victims. This discourse has been done to death here in the story forum, there are hundreds of threads with the same discourse.
The way most people who stan Sylvanas see Shadowlands and the Sylvanas book as a Tabula Rasa. she is no longer being manipulated so from here on out she’s responsible for actions. But that doesn’t mean the narrative sweeps her crimes under the rug, she’s literally in the Maw atoning for the crimes she did when she was being manipulated. She has enough self awareness to understand that manipulation or not she’s still accountable for her crimes which she herself calls “unforgiveable.” If that’s not good enough, if people are still demanding she be killed off, well then there’s some alternative motive because her redemption arc is more than an other character has been given. Uther had the same redemption arc and faced less judgement for being similarly manipulated by the Jailer through Devos, and the reaction to him hasn’t been the same.
Arthas was just as manipulated and just as evil and yet people are asking that he get the same redemption arc as Sylvanas. If he’s eligible for redemption in the eyes of the playerbase than so is she. (but Arthas is not Sylvanas and Arthas would never have the character to be as self aware so they are not the same.)
This was a mistake. Metzen of all people considered Warcraft’s history to be like our history, that it is subject to biases and incorrect information. And as a dude who mains a race that is the epitome of retcons I have always been willing to give Blizzard a good chunk of leeway.
And now we have gone back full circle and gone back to this idea that Warcraft’s story is more malleable. And its not like they will retcon certain things. The first, second, third and now fourth war did happen. The accounts of it will be different and new details may pop up(even contradictory ones) but for the most part it won’t change.
Of course not. He only killed a few Kyrians ( who nobody liked much anyway ) instead of burning down the home of a playable race.
But if it was up to me, I would have sent him to the Maw with Sylvanas. Same as she saves souls and searches for Nathanos, he could search for what remains of Arthas’ soul.
I am assuming it’s a sentence, and you think his soul was destroyed. In that case let me refer you to a trinket containing and old warriors soul dropped off Sylvanas. Varok is still sitting it my bank, it feels shameful to sell him for a few gold coins.
I assumed Varoks soul was tied to Anduins blade since both him and Varian show up as spirits at the end to help Anduin break free from the domination magic controlling him. Kind of hard to appear as a ghost if his soul was destroyed after all
yeah, I didn’t even think about that, that’s a good point. But how did Varian’s soul get in there? I think maybe it was just their souls may have been tied to Shalamayne somehow still and they were able to appear to Anduin like force ghosts? that cinematic is still cheesy and doesn’t make much sense.
Daughter.
I made a statement:
Sylvanas gets to come back.
Her victims do not.
Saurfang, the orcish racial leader who is in absolutely no way a nameless vendor NPC, is dead.
He does not get to come back.
I’m not moving the goalposts. You did take issue with Ysera and Xe’ra’s deaths.
Yrel’s forces were not lightforged.
What is it that Gunlod says when speaking out against Odin?
I didn’t say repeating canon made the fan theory canon. The fan theory is only there to help explain actual canon. You can be mad at Illidan one shotting Xe’ra all you want. Fact is, it’s canon.
It’s made clear in Dawn of the Aspects that the events of Cata sterilized the Dragons. That book came out during MoP.
Turalyon’s eyes changing colors after the death of Xe’ra is done for a reason.
People have their own opinions obviously. Some opinions are obviously more popular than others. Given the fact that legion is regarded as the last good expansion, I would say your opinion is probably a fringe one.
You trapped yourself in this position. You can’t have it both ways. If you believe that Xe’ra forcing herself on Illidan is right then the same must be said for Illidan enslaving a portion of Akama.
Which interviews? I would be interested to see them. Most of Sylvanas’s character arc is atributed to Danuser since she’s obviously his waifu.
Helya is absolutely a main character. She’s extremely important during legion and shadowlands. She’s a raid boss, dungeon boss, etc. Are you trying to compare Delaryn to Helya? That’s laughable. That’s like comparing Topper Mcnabb to Xavius.
You quoted my explanation as to why people hate sylvanas as if saurfang being part of the world tree (which isn’t even true) fixes the issue of a character being removed from play in permanence.
People don’t like Sylvanas because she gets to remove characters from the story and experience a temporary time out before she returns. When when returns, the characters she removed remain gone and do not return.
