What does your ideal map look like?

Lore Story Forum
82

The Lordaeron obsessed dwarf is once again triggered by Forsaken getting their lands back. Keep up the show. It is very satisfying.

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83

tbh, I feel like BFA could have played on Anduin’s inexperience as a leader. Trying for a peaceful solution making him a bit of a pushover. HIs willingness to make peace with Sylvanas losing him a lot of support from the Alliance as a whole, but most significantly on the side of humanity.

Arathi, Gilnean and Lordaeron nationals taking matters into their own hands, Anduin ultimately having to decide to either support these terrorists/freedomfighters, or leave them to the fate they chose for themselves. Without Alliance support, Stromgard falls to the control of the Forsaken (Really would have liked to see a Danath vs Galen thing, but they wasted Galen for an Artifact weapon =/ ))

Anduin’s failure to support his own people sends ripples through the Alliance. Night Elves eager to return to the era of peace they had before the joining the Alliance required only a small push. Tyrande would not abandon her people though, and we would see almost a regression into a Long Vigil era foreign policy from the Kaldorei. Strengthening their military presence on the borders, and cutting out less concentrated Horde presence from their lands, such as Ashenvale and Stonetalon.

Anduin, young, naĂŻve and inexperienced, watching the Alliance crumble around him as Sylvanas runs circles around him in the political and diplomatic theatre. BFA really should have been about that, with the looming threat of the Old Gods sitting in the Shadows, as if puppeteering events, preparing Azeroth for their awakening.

TL;DR - North EK Horde. North/Northwest/Westcoast Kalimdor Alliance.

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84

I wish this actually happened. This seems way more natural than what we got.

Tyrande has 10,000 years of military experience and she has to kowtow to some 18 year old kid. It’s unrealistic.

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85

Realistically she wouldn’t, but you know…sexism and blizzard made for some really tone deaf decisions being made. Notice how it was always the women who had to listen to the men and rarely if ever, the other way around

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86

Seems most of our ideals fall, generally, on the same lines: Showcase the changing world and the lands the factions have acquired or lost by way of war or new allies.

I still want a bit more of an ‘open’ world, in that neither faction has an overly strong holding on one continent or the other, to allow disruption by neutral forces or contested areas. I don’t want a ‘safe’ world so to say. But I also want it to seem plausible while keeping or only slightly editing existing zone boundaries.

Key as follows:

  • Red = Horde
  • Blue = Alliance
  • Green = Night Elf/Cenarian Circle
  • Orange = Contested/Contentious
  • Purple = Cooperation
  • Yellow = Neutral

Big take aways:

  • Horde, Taunka, and refugee Ice Trolls create a bigger presence in Northrend
  • Alliance lock down the North-Central EK sea routes, as well as Central EK.
  • Horde stays strong in Central Kalimdor, weak on periphery
  • The Alliance, proper, should not have dominion over Moonglade, Hyjal, Val, and Azuna, the Night Elves specifically, with the Cenarian Circle, should. Showcases Night Elf separatism and strength.
  • Neither faction can sustain campaigns to secure contested areas.
  • Yaungol join the Horde, Hozen still apart of it, get coastal support from Zandalar.
  • Alliance retain old Dominance Offensive holdings, support Jinyu.
Kalimdor:
  • Horde regain control of the entire Barrens and secure Thousand Needles. Are largely unable to spread out from there without becoming too thin.
  • Duskwallow Marsh is not worth the effort, logistically or strategically, to fully secure. Grimtotem flourish, Brakenwall remains and grows.
  • Farraki not numerous enough to spread out of Zul’Farrak, tepidly supports the Horde through the Zandalari. Gadgetzan controls must of northern/central Tanaris. Pirates and renegades to the south still.
  • Night Elves fully control Feralas - though a lot of ‘clean up’ is needed. Ogres, corruption, misc ruins, etc. Tauren largely left alone and allowed to leave or continue in traditional ways distant of the Horde. Great Highborne opportunity.
  • Continued cooperation in Silithus and Desolace.
  • Ungoro not worth the effort, mostly science trips and Uldum under control of Ramkahen.
  • Stonetalon a contentious zone due to Night Elf/Alliance distrust of the Horde as a whole and easy access deep into Ashenvale, Ashenvale split into 2 zones, Night Elves and Horde still bickering over the southern half and logging camps. Sorry, NE fans I just thoroughly enjoy this conflict.
  • Alliance proper controls Draenei Isles, Northern Ashenvale, Felwood. Looking to reclaim secure rest of Ashenvale.
Eastern Kindoms
  • Forsaken are forced back and eastward, formally securing WPL and a new Alterac zone that goes down to Tarren Mill
  • Blood Elves still rebuild and make minimum territorial gains. Zandalari and Darkspear broker truce on behalf of Blood Elves with Amani. Relations still shaky.
  • Eastern Plaguelands still heavily occupied by Argents/Silver Hand. Difficult for the Horde to dislodge after brazen removal from Hearthglen by Forsaken. Take up fortified and proper positions within Tyr’s Hand. Alliance subterfuge by way of Hinterlands.
  • Gilneas secured, Hillsbrad taken/resettled by Lordearon and Dalaran refugees, back in Alliance control.
  • Silverpine an all out, unsanctioned, war zone. Fenris Isle maintained by Forsaken, Shadowfang Keep by Gilneas.
  • Hinterlands still a back and forth between Revantusk and Wildhammer. Revantusk defeat Vilebranch. Zandalari and Revantusk occupy and make puppet until they join the Horde.
  • Alliance unable to secure Arathi outside of Stromgarde. Syndicate, Witherbark, and Horde make difficult. Hammerfall connected to Revantusk. Horde on edge being cornered.
  • Wetlands and Twilight Highlands under threat from Dragonmaw. Part Horde sanctioned, part splinter groups. Dragonmaw Port under Horde control. Draonmaw leadership supports the Horde, clan at large mixed and suspicious. Menithal Harbor repaired.
  • Central EK and outside islands fully secured by various Alliance groups. Humans, Bronzebard, Gnomes, Dark Irons. Not without internal strife, of course.
  • Badlands primarily dig sites and excavation for Explorers League and Reliquary. Horde presence in New Kargath not large enough to warrant major Alliance concern, Badlands logistically impossible for Horde to threaten beyond it. Remains Neutral.
  • Swamp of Sorrows contentious. Stonard grows with Gurubashi presence.
  • Blasted Lands still an area of cooperation to watch Dark Portal. Settlements/Forts repaired.
  • Deadwind Pass and Duskwood cooperative, but heavily Alliance, based areas. Duskwood untamed, running rampant with worgen, undead, and cultists.
  • Gurubashi join the Horde, and with it Stranglethorn. The cape remains a pirates paradise under Booty Bay.
Northrend
  • Taunka and Ice troll refugees secure Grizzly Hills. Taunka’s ancestral homes, Ice trolls base of operation to reclaim Zul’Drak.
  • Horde and Taunka control Borean Tundra. Ancestral homes for the Taunka and accessible supply lanes for Horde.
  • Alliance control Howling Fjord with secure lanes from Eastern Kingdoms.
  • Rest is neutral or cooperative with respective groups. Argents, Ebon Blade, Wyrmrest Accord, Kirin’tor, Titan Followers, ect.
Pandaria
  • Kalimdor Tauren, Highmountain, and Taunka reconnect with Yaungol. Select clans join the Horde. Hojin Pandaren broker agreements between bovines and pandas. Establishes explicit Horde presence in Townlong Steppes.
  • Zandalari navy and proximity allow for support. Northern coast become Hojin follows. Hozen Horde aligned but unreliable allies.
  • Jinyu Alliance aligned, more reliable allies. Alliance were able to retain Kasarang as they’re not the ones that destroyed the Vale.
  • Jade forest neutral despite north/south divide. Rest of Pandaria neutral under Pandaren/Shado-Pan. Isle of Thunder collectively guarded between the 3 factions.
The Other Islands
  • Zandalar and KT fully under respective faction control. Navies rebuilt/rebuilding. Recovering from inner turmoils while stressed from external obligations.
  • Highmountain secured by Highmountain. No one is trying for that one.
  • Suramar becoming expansionist, secures Broken Shore and Eye of Azshara. Does not trust others to repeat mistakes, or be that close to home.
  • Night Elves and Cenarian Circle watch over Val’shara and Azuna. Wearily make contact with Suramar. Prefer to work through Highmountain.
  • Stormhiem left to its own devices. Suramar and Highmountain wary.
  • Kezan… no strong feelings on. Probably Cartel controlled. Future expansion?
  • Minor islands by coasts, generally, controlled by nearby faction, or too small/unimportant to care about.
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87

Ain’t it funny how so many people maintain the logic that Night Elf/Cenarion Circle retains agency and autonomy but the Tauren Earthen Ring doesn’t, often forgetting the Earthen Ring is a Tauren organization that narratively serves (or SHOULD serve) as the Shamanistic parallel to the Cenarion Circle :stuck_out_tongue:

88

You’d think, but the Blizzard Gods have spoken. The Earthen Ring gets a tiny plateau over the Mealstrom and various elemental plane connections. :pensive:

Dibs for Stonetalon perhaps? Desolace?

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89

Personally I would’ve made the Earthen Ring a Troll organization from the onset rather than a Tauren one but alas

If the Cenarion Circle has “dibs” on patrolling Ahn’Qiraj and Desolace and Silithus, I’d argue the Earthen Ring has “dibs” on patrolling the Elemental Plane Doorways (Blackrock, Hyjal’s base, Vashjir, Uldum) and the Dark Portal (as it was made by a Shaman and a Mage, and as an “opposite” to the Qiraji problem)

90

I think thats certainly a fair trade off. Though of course it doesnt have to be the Cenarian Circle in Desolace. The shaman destroyed it, only fair they fix it too.

Blackrock might be a bit more difficult given the Dark Irons would theoretically control it but otherwise yeah, it isnt a stretch to remove the Alliance control from the Vashjir islands, and Night Elves can’t distrust all tauren. A note worthy way to rebuild trust, if thats the direction people want to go between the Night Elves and Horde races.

Here for the Dark Portal though. Feel as if the Blasted Lands have always been criminally underdeveloped for such an important zone in the story. Even WoD prepatch was pathetic.

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91

Given that we have had Shadowlands now, and I assume most of this expansion is cannon…

Would you connect the Throne of Thunder and the red anima usage at all to the Dreadlords/Revendreth?

92

No actually!

In-game canon, there are two kinds of “blood” magic originally:

  • Hakkar/Sethe “Dark Wild God” blood magic
  • “Vampyr curse” magic

Were it up to me:

  • Mogu learned Blood Magic from Zandalari Troll Archives during imperial trade and exchange
  • “Vampyr Curse” exists because a Venthyr managed to get to reality and tried to “Sire” a mortal; since all Shadowlands magic is a type of Necromancy, Arthas was able to replicate the Vampyr Curse in the San’layn same way he was able to copy the Offbrand Kyrians of Odyn’s Valkyr

Tying all blood magic to Revendreth/Denathrius throws Hakkar under the bus imo

There needs to be two origins.

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93

Really despite having a bunch of surface themes aligning to pop-culture “Transylvanian” vampire stories, the venthyr don’t actually function vampirically. No moreso than literally everything else in the Shadowlands, since it all runs on consuming anima.

In that way they’re similar to their nathrezim cousins: a collection of cosmetic and thematic vampire trappings (and in the dreadlords’ case, some never-actually-portrayed references to them being “psychic vampires”), complete with superfluous fangs for all the biting and blood drinking neither race ever actually does, because blood and anima are really two completely different things with only the latter being the universal “fuel” sustaining every living being native to the Shadowlands.

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94

They’re called “Sin Eaters” but nowhere in-game is that concept ever elaborated on.

When Venthyr “drain” anima it does indeed go to their mouths in the spell animation, but what does it mean.

One can theorize to be sure, speculate

But it’s not real so who cares

95

I think your obsession with your pro forsaken bias prevents you from seeing the obvious that forsakens currently have absolutely no military power capable of constructing a narrative in which they are actually able to recapture those territories you invented that they conquered.

I understand the plot can be anything, including forsakenns using earth elementals because they have now become shamans. But if there’s any remnant of logic still in Blizzard, and if you remember the forsaken quests from the cataclysm era, the truth is that without the plague the forsakens were basically defeated in every battle they participated. This happened at Gilneas, Andorhal, Southshore and finally at the Battle of Lordaeron. They weren’t even able to drive a worgen militia out of their deep territory in Tirisfal.

Now we can follow the course where Saurfang’s entire narrative arc makes even less sense, as seeing the forsaken use the plague against the horde itself was a trigger for him, and it could be that a group of forsaken apothecaries were hiding somewhere. of Tirisfal fabricating an even more powerful plague. But that would only serve to prove that the forsakens are in fact as heinous as Sylvanas. And that all this narrative pushed by Blizzard in SL makes even less sense since forsakens are and always will be as sick as she is, and that this nonsense that Sylvanas is guilty alone is even less coherent.

If you take a step back and try to interpret the scenario that’s been forming in front of you, it’s pretty evident that the most obvious path to follow is that the humans will recover Lordaeron. Simply speaking, it is very clear that the plot of the next expansion will be in Azeroth and that it will involve Turalyon, Anduin and some plot involving light probably with the participation of Yrel. Now if Yrel is going to be a villain, which would be most expected from Blizzard, the most we can expect from the narrative would be something like it following the same path as Garrosh of cataclysm.

That initially filled the Horde with pride for conquering various territories. And doing the same with Yrel and Turalyon would be even more coherent since plots involving religious fanaticism always carry with them the figure of the anti-Christ. And there is no anti-Christ who arrives simply doing cruel acts, in the eyes of those who follow him in the beginning they always do enormous good. And for the Alliance that matters, apart from this Alliance that is so present in the forums talking about kaldoreis, it would be extremely important to conquer Lordaeron.

And since I think the next exp will be full of fanservice, since they’re just desperate, it’s pretty obvious to me that tying this lore to the forsakens’ side would be easy, since we’ve got an entire scourge roaming Northerend without a Lich King. They are much closer to the forsakens than any bond with Lordaeron would ever be, as they share the exact same cursed fate. I can clearly see the forsakens trying to rehabilitate those from the scourge and bring them to their ranks.

And that doesn’t mean I think Lordaeron will be permanent conquered or anything like that, I just think a narrative at that level would be as simple as possible and doable and I don’t think Blizzard will do anything more complex than that. Even because the expansion has to take place somewhere. And for me the obvious place for a final raid would be in Lordaeron rather than a delusional idea of Stormwind siege.

So even though the topic is about the map we’d like, I think it’s good to take into account that a narrative has been designed since BFA. And for me that hype that BFA cinematic generated in Alliance fans with Anduin conquering Lordaeron has to be paid somehow.

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96

Killing alliance heroes for once would be a change instead of forcing Horde players to always help kill their own faciton. But alliance biased people like yourself fail to see that two factions play this game and this is not an alliance only show. So stick your nonsense to yourself. Humanity has no footing in Lordaeron. It belongs to the Forsaken and if Blizzard cares about getting money from Forsaken fans they will make it so that the Forsaken return and built up their stuff again.

It won’t. You are talking BS to fit your own human centric narrative.

Humans already have more land then any other race. They don’t need even more. Stop being human biased.

Forsaken have the strongest military in the whole Horde. They are totally capable of claiming the land again if their leaders would make their moves to make it so. Your pro human bias blinds you just like the dwarf.

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I don’t try to analyze the evidence using my wishes I try to look at what Blizzard intends to do. The most you’ve said is that because I understand evidence differently than yours so I’m a fan obsessed with humans, even the evidence that I play a blackrock orc clearly shows which race I really like, although I recognize that I find the human lore interesting to say the least. You can keep my post, because in the next expansion, to build the narrative of that villain Alliance, they will do just that. And I’ll find it comical to see you here surprised, when in fact it was obvious they would do this sort of thing. Even more when you click on Turalyon’s npc and he says exactly that he intends to do this. And throughout Anduin’s narrative arc it’s glaringly obvious that when he returns from the Shadowlands he’ll be completely unable to rule and that Turalyon will rule in his place.

To sell this idea of ​​villainous light that Blizzard is determined to push forward, it is evident that Lordaeron will play a central role, as it is part of the religious fanaticism of humans, how are you going to sell this idea of ​​light crusade without a supposed Jerusalem? It’s kind of sad to see you working so hard to bring a degree of depth to a lore that never had.

Blizzard always accurately announces this kind of thing, that’s the same as what I see in this forum when people said they was surprised since Shadowlands was not predictable, when in fact it was evident that there was a Death Lord behind the actions of Sylvanas. The only surprise is that he calls himself Zooval, a pretty silly name if you ask me.

My point here is not to say who have the better claim to Lordaeron, it is simply to state that the evidence that the Alliance will conquer Lordaeron has never been stronger. Learn to separate the message from the messenger.

And don’t get carried away by this analysis that certain things will never happen, for all intents and purposes Teldrasil burns to this day, to build a narrative they want to sell they do anything.

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98

I won’t even dispute it, because it’s so blatantly false it’s ridiculous. To say that any Horde race is more powerful than orcs is simply delusion.

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99

Erevien is disillusioned. Like you said, when the forsaken 1) Face an enemy willing to fight just as dirty as them(Ivar and the rest of the worgen during Hillsbrad questing) or 2) Without their WMD, the plague they got their teeth kicked in nearly every single time.

I’d say the two most powerful armies the horde has is the Orcs and Quel’thalas.

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100

I won’t talk with you any longer since it seems that your human bias blinds you. Lordaeron doesn’t belong to the alliance. Never will be. It is Forsaken turf. Accept that and move on.

No it is Forsaken.

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I just made these two comments so when the next expansion comes around I’ll laugh at how much your bias keeps you from seeing how obvious this lore is.

But feel free not to talk to me, as I like to talk about lore, not delusions where forsakens are the super military power of the Horde.

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