What classes need buffs? (11/08/24)

PVP Arenas
1

Dear community and devs,

since its Friday and we will hopefully see some PvP balancing, I just wanted to make sure that you are buffing the right classes.

Current DPS class state based on 3s and RSS ladders looks like the following tables will show. For each number I used checked-pvp and combined NA and EU ladder. It does compare active class popularity (all players with 1000+ rating) with class representation on high ratings (all players with 2400+ rating), which gives us a rough overview of how the DPS classes are doing.

Its not filtered by specs but classes (exception melee to range specs!), because before we are trying to make each spec of a class equally strong, we should make sure that every class has at least one DPS spec that is doing fine!

3s:

Class Per mille (‰) Count 2400+ Count 1000+
Feral 14.239 61 4284
Ele 12.790 27 2111
Enha 12.158 12 987
Rogue 12.037 50 4154
Hunter (w/o SV) 8.672 44 5074
Boomy 8.380 12 1432
SV 8.239 8 971
Evoker 5.676 12 2114
Priest 5.224 21 4020
Mage 5.035 24 4767
Warrior 4.918 31 6304
Lock 4.914 30 6105
Pala 3.985 12 3011
DH 2.694 4 1485
DK 2.249 11 4891
Monk 2.073 5 2412

What does that mean? In 3s, out of a thousand ferals in average 14.239 reached 2400 rating. For Monk (WW) on the other hand, only 2.073 out of a thousand were able to reach that rating. How about Shuffle?

RSS:

Class Per mille (‰) Count 2400+ Count 1000+
Priest 17.264 133 7704
Ele 16.536 82 4959
Enha 15.380 47 3056
Lock 14.634 221 15102
Boomy 11.982 39 3255
Hunter (w/o SV) 11.843 213 17986
Evoker 11.817 59 4993
Feral 10.984 102 9286
Rogue 7.549 104 13776
Warrior 6.434 133 20671
Mage 6.334 94 14840
SV 5.965 19 3185
Pala 5.155 54 10475
DH 3.949 23 5824
Monk 3.134 23 7340
DK 2.031 28 13786

Priest (Shadow) is the best DPS class in shuffle with 17.264 out of a thousand who reached elite rating, while DK is the worst with only 2.031 players per thousand who achieved elite.

Lets combine both brackets for an overall class strength:

Overall class strength:

Class 3s RSS Points
Ele 12.790 16.536 29.326
Enha 12.158 15.380 27.538
Feral 14.239 10.984 25.223
Priest 5.224 17.264 22.488
Hunter (w/o SV) 8.672 11.843 20.515
Boomy 8.380 11.982 20.362
Rogue 12.037 7.549 19.586
Lock 4.914 14.634 19.548
Evoker 5.676 11.817 17.493
SV 8.239 5.965 14.204
Mage 5.035 6.334 11.369
Warrior 4.918 6.434 11.352
Pala 3.985 5.155 9.140
DH 2.694 3.949 6.643
Monk 2.073 3.134 5.207
DK 2.249 2.031 4.280

Both shaman dps specs, Feral and Shadow are currently best overall picks while DK, WW and DH are not worth it to pick at all! But we should also look at how things have changed since the last hotfixes have went live:

Class 10/30 11/08 Increase
Boomy 7.58 20.362 12.782
Ele 20.31 29.326 9.016
Lock 10.94 19.548 8.608
Priest 14.14 22.488 8.348
Feral 16.89 25.223 8.333
Hunter (w/o SV) 12.23 20.515 8.285
Evoker 9.28 17.493 8.213
Rogue 12.54 19.586 7.046
Enha 20.51 27.538 7.028
Warrior 5.74 11.352 5.612
Pala 4.14 9.14 5
Mage 7 11.369 4.369
SV 9.87 14.204 4.334
DH 2.76 6.643 3.883
Monk 3.53 5.207 1.677
DK 2.78 4.28 1.5

Numbers of 10/30 are from my previous post: Current Class Balancing (DPS) 10/30/24 - #71 by Flitzi-sargeras

We can see that especially the changes to Boomy had massive effect, but also Ret and Warrior can now hold their own better than before!

DK, Monk and DH, who had previously finished bottom of the ladder, were also unable to make any major gains here. These 3 classes are simply barely viable at the moment and urgently need some love from the devs!

This is underlined by the PvE Raid ranking where especially for Monk but also for DH afaik the PvP modifiers are in general even lower:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#sample=7&dataset=95

Conclusion:

DK, Monk and also DH desperately need buffs. They don’t have a single DPS spec that would be competitive and the recent changes to the classes and the resulting meta havn’t changed that!!

Finally, let’s take a quick look at the healer situation, but I’ll leave it to the healers to make statements about it. I also can’t say how the situation has changed since the last time, as I haven’t tracked it before.

Healer overall strength:

Healer 3s RSS Points
Monk 9.458 4.537 13.996
Evoker 9.328 4.522 13.850
Pala 9.020 3.718 12.738
Priest 5.516 2.911 8.427
Druid 3.062 0.976 4.038
Shaman 1.450 1.251 2.701

I guess our Restos (Druid & Shaman) need some love!

Hopefully I was able to give you a rough overview of how PvP balancing currently is and in which direction the devs should look mostly at.

Thank you for your patience and time!

13 Likes
2

There’s a lot wrong with your analysis which I laid out in your previous post and won’t rehash here but the fact that BM Hunter isn’t shown as an egregious outlier above everything else should be a red flag to anyone reading this. Hopefully you meaningfully address those issues in the data instead of continuing to turn a blind eye to them.

17 Likes
3

In your opinion … !

We had enough discussion about it in my last post and in my opinion, your criticism has little basis and therefore receives no further attention.

I have explained sufficiently why I filter by classes and not by specs. It’s just to show which classes currently doesn’t have a single competitive DPS spec and therefore needs help from the developers!

6 Likes
4

I think this info is great but also misleading. This isn’t meant as a slight to you but i think you’re misrepresenting classes but putting some specific specs and then putting warrior, lock, DK, etc. I appreciate the analysis though. Good work man.

5 Likes
5

Please resubmit with tables respective of their data points.

Listing specs and classes in the same table, just distorts and presents an dishonest representation.

I do appreciate the effort you put into this though.

10 Likes
6

I’ve seen you post before and you always get the same (correct) criticism but you keep posting anyway. I’m glad you learned how to do markdown formatting and make nice tables but these numbers do not show the most broken classes correctly. BM should be at the top but it is not.

5 Likes
7

Hello friends.

The idea behind it is, that when Sub is suddenly weak but Outlaw becomes strong, most rogues simply swap to the strongest spec as 80% are basically the same as before. They don’t have to relearn a new class, since basic design of the class in terms of CC/Defensives/Positioning etc. is about the same.

Only exception here were the melee to range specs of the same class → Druid, Shaman and Hunter. When Feral gets nerfed but Boomy receive buffs, the Feral most likely won’t swap over to Boomy, but pick another melee class. So I respected their design differences as separat classes.

So I mostly listed classes, with a few exceptions. We should make sure that each class has at least one viable DPS spec, because if it doesn’t, the players can’t just play another spec but have to reroll to another class if they want to play something that is viable …

7 Likes
8

Classic case of using data to fit a narrative rather than sn objective unbiased analysis.

While effort is there, the many flaws and issues with your analysis have been laid out by other posters but you persist, and im not sure why other than the conclusion fitting your own ersonal opinion.

5 Likes
9

Where exactly is it subjective or biased?

And where exactly do the data show wrong strength? Would you say Ele, Enha, Feral, Priest, Hunter (mostly BM) aren’t great? Or DH, Monk and DK aren’t weak?

1 Like
10

Yea i don’t think i can agree with you about this. You’re inserting your opinion into the data and then trying to represent it as objective fact. While it’s true that some people will continue to play a class and just swap to the strongest spec thats not always the case. Think about how different mage or warlock specs play. They’re entirely different playstyles in most cases. Therefore, a lot of people will continue to play a specific spec, even is its underpowered. We play this game for fun. What’s the point playing a spec you don’t enjoy?

Again, I’m not condemning your work. I appreciate that you’re willing to spend your free time diving into the stats of wow PvP. I just think moving forward your data set could be improved.

2 Likes
11

I think this accusation is quite unfair. I explained why I used DPS classes instead of specs and drew personal conclusions from the data. But nowhere did I manipulate the data in any way! You are free to use the tables to draw your own conclusions.

Of course do I understand that everyone here wants confirmation that BM Hunter is totally broken and should be nerfed immediately.

But personally, I’m more interested in which classes seem to get along reasonably well despite the (supposed?!) dominance of BM Hunter and co, and which classes don’t have a single spec that is viable. However, this does not mean that the data was not collected objectively and impartially.

I also play Warlock and even though it’s true that Demo and Destro seem very different, I still don’t have to relearn the class. I’m still a caster whose positioning is similar, whose CC is mostly the same, my toolkit hardly changes, etc. I do use my healthstone, my gate, my portal, my cc, my burst, etc. in the same situations, no matter which spec I play.

Only the way I do damage is different!

12

Overall rep and spec/class strength have correlation, but they aren’t the same. The numbers assume too much.

Some specs can be overpowered in the context of ONE comp and be completely underperforming doing anything else. Specs can be be massively over performing in the mid brackets and be under performing higher up and vice versa.

While it’s good to see the overall numbers, balancing on that basis doesn’t work out. Again, sometimes the two line up. The most busted spec happens to also be the most played spec, but this is often not the case.

They don’t.

4 Likes
13

Another class balancing post, another no mention of healers.

DPS truly don’t even see us as humans. We’re merely the scapegoat.

We’re the X in any comp name indeed.

1 Like
14

Blessed are those who read before they write:

They do. All 3 are awful. Nearly unplayable on high ratings!

3 Likes
15

Get back in the kitchen and make a sandwich, I mean get back to being my mana battery and healbot :dracthyr_love_animated:

16

you got me there, I was not paying much attention
thanks champion

1 Like
17

I feel like DPS would just think I’m the toaster rather than the other living thing in their house

More like the grill than the girl

1 Like
18

:sweat:

bankmw single handedly adding 5 points to 3s and RSS, god bless him

mw is also pretty good against hunters so I can see why we perform well, porting traps is huge

buff rsham

19

Fried take from a 1500 shuffler

Take away a bm pet, make frost mage roots dr, give warrior roller skates and the game is fine

2 Likes
20

Why are you lumping all pure dps classes as one? This hides the state of each spec and is flawed data tbh.

I appreciate the effort though, but try again with better data.

1 Like