This was in reference to his previous belief that it was impossible for the living and the Forsaken to co-exist. He is not saying that the fault for the poor relations between humans and Forsaken is the fault of humans, just that perhaps it doesn’t always have to be this way.
BtS is great, it just doesn’t say the things that you seem to think it does.
“Have you ever considered trying to understand the Forsaken?” I say to the human buried up to their neck in excrement mere moments before braining them with a shovel “This is your fault for not trying to help them.”
The point is Genn was wrong about the Forsaken and has changed his mind.
It does, you just don’t think it fits your perception. Which is fine, I’m not in the business of changing perceptions. Just laying out the facts.
“Forgive me, my old friend. My arrogance blinded me to what was clear all along had I looked with the right eyes.” - Turalyon.
I feel that you have blinders on and that this is the overarching story of the Alliance in BtS.
I’m sure they are all wrong tho…
Still, what do you think of the “turnips” on Forsaken farms? Will they be justified in the hatred they feel?
You are blurring the lines.
I’m talking about the Alliance coming to terms with their fault/arrogance/wrongness against the Forsaken which is a running theme in BtS.
You’re talking about is it okay for people who were wronged by the Forsaken to feel hatred. Yes, and I also think that its okay for the Forsaken who were wronged by the Alliance to feel hatred. Its a none issue for me.
M … something is wrong. Is the topic of reconciling the Forsaken with their own misconduct towards humans, starting with Garithos, necessary?
According to Shaw, Gary got more than he deserved by the Forsaken.
I think everyone, in and out of game, was fist pumping when he died. How about you?
“Humans need to apologize for calling the Forsaken playground names but Forsaken don’t need to apologize for their intercontinental genocidal rampage” is an audacious position to hold, I’ll give you that.
Except, in this case, it wasn’t a parallel to the Allies pushing into Berlin.
Genn was wanting to completely crush and occupy Zul’dazar to deny any assistance to the Horde. Which wasn’t exactly the wrong decision, but it would of been cruel and bloody.
So, This would of been more similar to the Allies pushing into and occupying Austria.
(Granted, not a perfect example, consdering the circumstances of WW2)
I hate the fact that the deal was canceled. If he was killed later, using the plague and all that - this is permissible. But first, the Forsaken must leave Lordaeron (or the Capital) before killing.
I was relieved that I had finally completed this mission. Garithos is indifferent, only the deal matters.
That’s not what he said:
Genn Greymane says: The Horde has never been more vulnerable. We should strike hard… before Sylvanas hatches another vile scheme.
That’s it. Now, I was wrong about one thing. It was Jaina who compared Genn to Sylvanas for that line, not Anduin. Anduin agreed with her though. Still, nothing in there about committing genocide or war crimes or anything like that.
To reiterate; The Scourge had just wiped out Lordaeron, destroyed Dalaran. Razed Silvermoon. Stromgarde is gone. Muradin is presumed KIA by undead.
All information was largely second hand or even third hand knowledge. They didn’t have access to Wowpedia. They saw undead and shot first. Alliance High Command crippled; Onyxia having access to leadership. Grief filled Magni. Scared population of a new threat.
Then learning Undead joined the Horde. The Horde which destroyed stormwind, and many Dwarven strongholds.
I’m not saying it isn’t impractical. It clearly is.
I’m just saying it’s always surprising the amount of people that genuinely fume at the notion that Andiun just tries to be a good person all the time, and avoids taking actions he perceives as evil, just because they’d benefit him or his people.
He’s a genuinely lawful good character who believes that some principles are more important than simply maintaining your existence.
I mean…you can assume I am.
Unless we suddenly find a book on a shelf in Revendreth titled “My Plan To Keep The Forsaken Out Of The Alliance. -V”
Literally everyone in the Garithos/Scarlet forces can’t be “old guard”. If they can maintain an army, then new people are being swayed to their side.
So…basically the Forsaken experience.
Because they sill are victims.
It’s called a cycle of abuse. The fact that they victimize others doesn’t magically erase the fact that they were victimized.
The Forsaken would have been exterminated if they were kicked out of Lordaeron. I’m glad the deal was broken.
The Forsaken were cursed and needed the help/reassurance from their former living comrades.
I’m so happy that the Alliance is finally starting to understand the Forsaken. Maybe they can finally help their former living comrades overcome the curse/inner demons.
I wouldn’t have a problem with his position if he were just speaking for himself, but he’s not. He’s High King of the Alliance. His decisions decide the fate of all the nations and peoples in the Alliance. And this specific war was kicked off with the Horde committing an act of genocide. Sylvanas was open from the beginning that the goal of this war was to eliminate the Alliance as a threat for the rest of time. We now know that was BS, but the characters didn’t. With the information they had at the time, a Horde win meant wholesale slaughter and destruction. Anduin and Jaina’s position is absurd given those circumstances.
It’s not just once off, either. I can give you example after example stretching back years of Alliance characters taking the position of, “We could end the Horde threat here, but we won’t. That would be wrong.” It’s extremely frustrating to play on a faction where you’re told the enemy wants to wipe you out utterly, but at the same time you’re told to not go too hard against that enemy and ultimately to forgive them. And this has been going on since at least Cata. There may be earlier examples but I can’t remember off the top of my head.
Then they shouldn’t have agreed to leave Capital City if the Alliance conducted a joint operation with them.
I don’t fume at it at all. I like that he’s genuinely lawful good. I just think it should be acknowledged that it’s a character trait that, like any other, can produce both positive and negative consequences.
One lesson that Anduin seems to have slowly started to learn from Legion through to BfA though is that sometimes you need to choose between being a Good King and a Good Person. This is something that Varian and Terenas understood despite both of those being morally good aligned characters.
At the end of the day, when you’re in that kind of position of power, every decision you make is going to produce winners and losers. That’s part of the burden of leadership, and at a certain point making decisions so that you can personally maintain a moral high ground even at the expense of your people stops being wisdom and starts being selfishness.
Here’s the thing though…
The entire notion of preserving life is…meaningless, in setting where you know, factually, that an eternal afterlife exists. It’s like fighting wars over the state of your kindergarten, that could ruin the rest of your life.
It’s like, yeah, the Horde did an atrocity and cut your life short. But they’re gonna spend eternity in the Maw/Revendreth for it.
All you’re going to do by stooping to their level in the name of survival is get yourself kicked out of Bastion/Ardenweald/whatever nice afterlife you deserved.
It’s the epitome of short sightedness.
That’s why I think that knowledge of the afterlife obtained in Shadowlands should probably fall into the category of “super duper forbidden knowledge” that gets locked in an extremely secure facility guarded by powerful wizards going forward.
It’s hard to imagine something more socially disruptive than empirical evidence of an afterlife.
Nice joke.
Havent heard that one a hundred times.