That isn’t actually relevant to the topic at hand, which is fundamentally “why were human-Forsaken relations so bad from the start” which BtS doesn’t actually go into that much. The book starts long after human-Forsaken relations turned bad.
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You are also severely understating the role of Faol specifically in Turalyon and Genn’s change in perspective, and one of the reasons Faol was able to persuade Genn specifically was by acknowledging that his anger and hatred of the Forsaken was justified, and it was important because it’s the reason that he and his people were still alive.
He acknowledged Genn’s legitimate grievances and anger instead of trying to invalidate them, and in doing so got Genn thinking about the future rather than the past.
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The topic is is meant to tie in the old with present. You of all people should know my stance which didn’t change by reading BtS, we’ve only talked about a billion times.
I’m looking at the past and connecting it with lore development we received in BtS and Exploring Azeroth.
I’ve wanted nothing more than the Alliance to own up to their faults and attempt to help their cursed former comrades. AND ITS HAPPENING!!
Edit:
Previously we thought the Alliance were crying crocodile tears because of Gary, they are not. If Shaw is any kind of indicator, the Alliance is happy that he is dead and they believe that him being ate alive wasn’t enough.
Previously we had no admission of fault from the Alliance, now we do.
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Their faults being “being afraid of the zombies who keep on murdering them and herding people into death camps”
That the Forsaken have not been held to account for their atrocities in Hillbsrad in particular still rubs me the wrong way, to say nothing of the fact that Calia herself is a survivor of said atrocities yet is still acting like it’s the Forsaken who were the victims somehow.
I want to see Forsaken war criminals in Hillsbrad handed over to the Alliance to face justice.
Specifically High Executor Darthalia, Helcular, and every single Forsaken involved with the Sludge Fields, Azurelode Mine, or the mass-murder of the people of Southshore.
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Where’s the admission of fault from the Forsaken? Even in the most generous reading of your stance, the worst thing that the Alliance did was maybe kill a couple messengers out of confusion and trauma. Meanwhile the Forsaken have conducted genocide on a scale not seen since the Third War and are responsible for more atrocities than most PvE factions.
Where is them owning up to their actions? Where is their admission of fault? Where is their demonstration that they’ve changed?
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Per your King:
But the Alliance turned away from them. All we had to offer them were names - deader, rotters.
He also mentions that the Alliance didn’t make any attempts to understand the Forsaken, but now they are. The Alliance is working on its inner self and I’m happy about it.
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That’s actually not true though. Even if you’re going to ignore Garithos, there were still circumstances in Vanilla where some Forsaken sought refuge with the Alliance near Dalaran and they got it, and the officials there made great efforts to understand them before the Forsaken wiped everyone out.
You are treating the fact that BtS didn’t mention these things as being tantamount to BtS retconning things, when that’s not what it means at all.
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I didn’t read that one, actually.
I read the teaser where Sylvanas went off on an internal monologue about being the first female Warchief, groaned, and decided to pass.
To be blunt you’re starting to do that thing that you’re also doing with Sylvanas, which is massively speculating based on very small amounts of information and treating your speculation in its entirety as being factual simply because the kernal that you’re basing it on is factual.
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We know that the Forsaken are cursed, which is a roll of the dice. The Alliance has no curse nor no excuse to not have any common sense after soooo many years.
To answer your question, the Alliance and Horde recognize the nature of the Forsaken in BtS
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but she was the first female warchief, how is that bad?
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If the Forsaken are cursed to the point that they have no responsibility for their actions then they effectively have no free will and the Alliance was correct to treat them the same as the Scourge and Forsaken emissaries to the Alliance were like Cult of the Damned emissaries to the Alliance.
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Or idk try to help them?
You’re highlighting the exact reason I dislike the Alliance.
Edit:
Oh thats right, they made no attempts to understand the Forsaken. Again, per BtS
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The Forsaken were not interested in being helped. You cannot help those who do not want it.
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How would they know what they want if the Alliance made zero attempts to understand them?
The Alliance made several attempts to understand them. They even allied with them in TFT and received Forsaken refugees in Vanilla. Both instances resulted in everyone involved (including sympathetic Forsaken) being killed by the Forsaken, which was either followed up or coincided with Forsaken offensives into Silverpine, Hillsbrad, Arathi, and Gilneas.
You’re straight up gaslighting at this point and trying to spin a circumstance where the Forsaken are constantly abusing people into somehow being their victims fault.
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Again per BtS
Verbatim:
"I know it sounds like madness. But we’ve never tried to understand the Forsaken. Now could be the perfect chance. Archbishop Faol and other could help open negotiations. - King of the Alliance
Edit:
Like how many quotes and references from BtS do you want dude?
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Anduin was wrong. And the fact that he was wrong got people killed. We can actually see in Shadows Rising that he was deeply affected by the fact that he was wrong and it got people killed.
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Oh you want someone besides Anduin, got it.
Edit:
Again per BtS, which I should stop referencing and apparently trash…
I still think what was done to the Forsaken against their will was horrifying. But it’s clear to me now that some of them haven’t been broken by it. Some of them are still the people they once were. So I was wrong and I apologize. - Genn
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Anduin being naive to the point that he will ignore counsel from people with more knowledge on a situation and go with his gut instead is a well established character flaw of his.
It’s actually a really consistent aspect of his arc. He was raised during peacetime and grew up very sheltered thanks to Varian’s dotage, and as a consequence never really understood why Varian and others who had experienced previous wars behaved the way they did.
He couldn’t even really comprehend the idea of an implacable enemy that can’t be negotiated with or peacefully coexisted with until he visited the Broken Shore and saw it for himself.
In some ways this is a strength because it means he’s open to new ways of thinking that his elders wouldn’t consider, but in other ways its a weakness, because it means he makes unnecessary mistakes due to lack of experience.
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