You all are also overlooking the fact that at the same time Sylvanas killed Garithos, Varian went missing and the Kingdom of Stormwind was in disarray, leaving Onyxia in charge and Bolvar. It’s not like the Alliance was in any position to welcome new allies, especially not ones that were previously Scourge. The Alliance as we know it wasn’t even formed yet. Varian went missing on a diplomatic mission to bring Theramore into an alliance. The Alliance of Lordaeron had been disbanded years prior, and at the time the Grand Alliance was only the Humans of Stormwind, dwarves of Ironforge and Loch Modan and the gnomes of Gnomeregan.
Some of you try so hard to paint Sylvanas as something she’s not - her killing Garithos means nothing towards her character or how the Alliance viewed her. At the time she killed Garithos the Alliance would not have cared about the future fate of the Night Elves because they were not even allies yet. Garithos was a well-known racist, and he wasn’t an Alliance member he was from Lordaeron, a defunct kingdom with no king and only displaced refugees.
The one thing I have with your take is you said that Sylvanas rejected the Alliance and that’s not true. Sylvanas was someone who wanted the Alliance of Lordaron to thrive. She offered the assistance of Alleria and her Farstriders to Anduin Lothar. She spoke out against it when the Convocation of Silvermoon pulled Quel’thalas out of the Alliance of Lordaeron and from a Forsaken PoV we are told that she takes the rejection of the Forsaken from the Alliance as a personal wound. This rejection fuels her hatred of the Alliance because it’s actually justified.
There’s no way she rejected the Alliance first, and that’s what you are trying to suggest, making the Alliance look better at her expense. I have no problem with you hating this character, but you can’t change lore to suit your own narrative, especially not by taking the one thing Sylvanas is justified over.
Not true. There’s at least 1 survivor from Garithos’ army who later went to Theramore and participated in the war between the Horde and Daelin; Kristoff.
There’s also another one of Garithos’ footmen who survived, unfortunately I don’t remember his name. I’m sure Ainhin would know who I’m talking about.
Okay fine, Garithos’s men survived, but from what I remember Garithos also wanted to kill the blood elves as well as Sylvanas and the freed Forsaken. At no point from Sylvanas’s PoV was killing Garithos sending a message of rejection to the Alliance. I don’t think the Alliance cared that much about Garithos to rally behind his death.
I imagine the news of Garithos’s demise had the leadership of the Alliance shrugging and saying “good riddance” He was not a well-liked man, not even in Lordaeron.
The Alliance of Lordaeron had never been disbanded. The Third War destroyed most of it, and then the Alliance got new allies such as the Night Elves. Considering Lordaeron was destroyed and virtually no Alliance member-states were left standing in the Northern Eastern Kingdoms, it didn’t make sense to continue under the name of the, ‘Alliance of Lordaeron.’
Also, Varian going missing wasn’t to bring Theramore into the Alliance, it was already recognized as a part of it. He was going to Theramore to engage in secret discussions with Thrall for a more permanent peace treaty between the factions.
That said, the Alliance’s state of disorganization certainly would not have helped Sylvanas or her Forsaken emissaries in the slightest.
I agree, I don’t think the Alliance was in any position to welcome the Forsaken. I just don’t agree that it was Sylvanas’s choice. I’m not saying that the Alliance made a bad choice. I just think the Forsaken took that choice badly.
Not quite. He was xenophobic but wasn’t like he wanted them dead. He just didn’t want to work with them, let them fight on the frontlines or receive credit for what they did…
He tried to drive them away and mostly kept them off the battlefield, doing small, unimportant missions that kept them far from the fighting as he could.
It’s completely possible to be racist without being Homicidal towards someone.
Most of the rest of the Alliance didn’t know what kind of man Garithos was. They didn’t know about anything he was doing until after his death and information surrounding his death started moving through the broken chain of command.
The Alliance could easily dismissed his death without dismissing the events and actions of the Forsaken that resulted in his death.
I just feel like we shouldn’t entirely dismiss the Alliance war propaganda machine, because that’s a huge factor of the Alliance. It’s the Alliance’s only fatal flaw. They are very good at rallying behind a cause. If only the Horde was as equally unified.
In a way, I think that’s the weird irony that came back to bite Sylvanas. She thought the Horde would be unified against the Night Elves but she over-estimated the Horde’s lack of unity on any single position.
Well, she always knew the Tauren were a lost cause in trying to provoke into fighting the Night Elves. The Orcs would fall in line for their Warchief, Garrosh proved that. Gallywix was hers as long as there was profit to be made, and there was. She probably imagined she had Lor’themar whipped since she could make him jump on command up to that point. The Forsaken were her own personal cult.
Realistically, Sylvanas had good reason to think the Horde would fall in line. Any of the newcomers like the Highmountain or Nightborne were too fresh to really oppose her.
Of course, this is all passing over the fact that her plan from the start was probably to drive the Horde into the ground and eventual Civil War to feed more souls to the Maw.
I agree with some of that. The Tauren actually do have reason to hate the Night Elves. It’s in Stonetalon. The Night Elves attacked the Tauren there. With the exception of the druids. Tauren do not have a friendly repotroire with the Night Elves because they too fight over land, specifically Stonetalon and Ferelas. The Blood Elves sided with the Tauren against the Night Elves, because the Night Elves were also trying to invade Quel’thalas to destroy the Sunwell… The annoying part of BfA was the fact that the Horde forgot this antagonistic history of the Night Elves in favor of making Sylvanas a scapegoat.
The story is so badly disjointed. There was fighting in Stonetalen, but the moment its time to go to Thousand Needles the Night Elves and Tauren are fighting side by side against the Grimtotem like best friends.
There’s also cultural divides too, like who got to claim the Wild Gods and their shared mythology. Huln Highmountain was the exception, not the rule. Logistically, the Night Elves and the Tauren should have been on the same side, but I think Metzen wanted the Horde to fit a certain stereotype of the savage and the Night Elves stereotypically belonged in the Alliance because they were elves.
Funnily enough though, the name was never officially changed and as recently as MoP Metzen was using “Alliance of Lordaeron” as the Alliance’s formal name.
It was literally destroyed by the scourge the moment Arthas killed his father. Lordaeron was the backbone and the CPU of the alliance. Who was even left in the alliance by this stage. The alliance archives and constitution are probably sitting in RAS library. Without Lordaeron there was no longer an Alliance.
What am I projecting and what am I projecting onto? Just in case, what is projection? Attributing your thoughts to other objects?
Yes. May I have a quote? What exactly has tarnished? Deserved for the sum total of life, for specific activities?
The deal is “sacred”. Or so.
It’s better not to contact me for the details of the story. My knowledge is scraps of the forum.
OK. Defective Logic: Sylvanas, as the legacy leader of the Horde, refers to the Horde as beasts. Now you can engage in post-maturation, breeding and all the like, since the status of the Horde is “a beast”.
You are taking your feelings/thoughts and transferring them to the in-game universe characters, which is fine, but don’t present them as fact.
You feel that it makes sense for the Alliance to hate the Forsaken because they killed Garithos. Again, that is okay for you to speculate. The fact of the matter is there are two accounts of the Forsaken-Garithos team up from the Alliance point of view.
Kristoff, who believed Garithos to be a foolish arrogant man.
Shaw, who believed that the Forsaken killing him is better than what he deserved.
Anything beyond this sentiment is you projecting/speculating/head canon/you filling in the lore gaps yourself.
This is the ideal platform to speculate but don’t present it as fact.
Edit:
Maybe its just me, but your post felt like you were trying to present speculation as fact.
If you’re just speculating then disregard my comment.