We've been utterly LIED to about Layering

[Celessi-turalyon]

@Lazorek-emerald-dream

@Celessi-turalyon

People were taking HOURS to do the first quest in the game.

Why would you ABSOLUTELY need to do that quest on server launch?
There are alternatives to soloing the first quests and one of the best is grouping with people and go kill mobs lvl 5-6 outside the starting zone. I did that during a private server launch, and it was one of the best experiences of vanilla I ever had. The overcrowded problem actually solved itself. Our group even managed to “get ahead of the pack” and we reached the next quest hub before most people that were just waiting for respawn.

If you really want to solo, another alternative is exploration leveling. While it may take 30 mins to get to lvl 3 (https://youtu.be/di0NruSMwGk) , it’s still way better (and move active) than waiting hours for the first quests of the starting zone.

Because this isn’t a private server. Those level 5-6 mobs will kind of kill your group, just like they did in vanilla

[Paeldryth-hyjal (Paeldryth)]

You are too used to the solo play that retail offers.
The waiting, grouping was a big part of vanilla.

Only at the end game which most people didn’t participate in.

Vanilla broke the genre wide open because it was the first to cater to solo play.

[Fearoftdark-akama]

Ques will cause player retention issues.

No it won’t.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

No it won’t.

Yes it will?

“Why am I paying to play a game I can’t play?”

[Fearoftdark-akama]

“Why am I paying to play a game I can’t play?”

If there’s a queue that means the population is healthy. Meaning you feel good when you manage to get in. Go do your laundry go shower and wait the queue. The tourists will show themselves out and the real vanilla players will have a blast.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

If there’s a queue that means the population is healthy.

I can honestly say I have never thought, or heard anyone else say they thought, “This four hour queue is great, because we have such a healthy population”.

More often its:
“Why won’t you people quit?”
“Gah, this sucks”
or
“Why am I paying to play a game I can’t play?”

[Brockthorn-malygos (Brockthorn)]

Well you can avoid all that by waiting a week or two and then log in and you can quest in peace.

[Brockthorn-malygos (Brockthorn)]

It didn’t back in 2004. We even had days where we couldn’t log in because of the login boss. Remember all the comp time we got awarded. That didn’t discourage players; in fact the player base increased.

[Fearoftdark-akama]

four hour queue

Bit of an overstatement. 4 hour day would only be on launch day. One Day. I’ll take that over having to pray Ion finally decides to remove layering… if it’s as fast as he finally let people fly in retail then probably never

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

That didn’t discourage players; in fact the player base increased.

No, we demanded, and got more servers. Blizzard was throwing servers at the game as fast as they could. They launched with 40 on the first day and within 3 weeks, had 89 servers up, because of all the abuse and complaints about queues and server stability. And it got worse by February and they had to keep throwing more servers at it to get the queues down because they were getting worse.

This imagined “golden age” of patient players and compliant people, is completely untrue. We raged on the forums, and they didn’t censor our words. However, if that launch happened today, the entire Blizzard network would melt from the abuse, because people expect better.

[Bricklethumb-anvilmar]

I can honestly say I have never thought, or heard anyone else say they thought, “This four hour queue is great, because we have such a healthy population”.

Indeed. . People instead FLOOD to the forums and twitter crying about how terrible Blizzard is. .

It a vicious cycle

[Tornos-spirestone]

Ques will cause player retention issues.

The first 6 years of this game had ques from time to time, especially at launch. If what you claimed was true.

Then please explain how WoW grew from 0 - 12.5 million subs over those 6 years with all those que times.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

Then please explain how WoW grew from 0 - 12.5 million subs over those 6 years with all those que times.

Lots of apologies and free game time.

[Ristra-suramar (Ristra)]

Ques will cause player retention issues.

No it won’t.

Ok, let’s me rephrase that to be more specific.

Excessive que time will cause player retention issues.

it of an overstatement. 4 hour day would only be on launch day.

You are doing the same thing as the other poster. Ignoring all the parts of the puzzle that don’t fit the picture you want to draw.

No layering, no dynamic spawns, with a que. That means lots of extra servers. Dead servers after the population drop.

If there is a que, no dynamic spawns, no layering, as few seevers as possible. Then que time will be EXCESSIVE.

[Ristra-suramar (Ristra)]

Ques will cause player retention issues.

The first 6 years of this game had ques from time to time, especially at launch. If what you claimed was true.

Then please explain how WoW grew from 0 - 12.5 million subs over those 6 years with all those que times.

Easy to explain.

New player draw and new player retention. That comes from several different angles. Marketing, new content, to name a few.

They can market Classic all they want but without new content it will not retain the populations.

[Brockthorn-malygos (Brockthorn)]

Private servers disagree with you …oh for about the last 15 years.

But the retail snowflakes need their quest mobs to be available for tagging with no interference.

Oh are we up to 4 hour queues now ?
Why not cry about 8-10 hour queues ?

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

Private servers disagree with you

Oh yes, tell me how the one 15k magic server supported millions of players. Private servers are only the most diehard of Vanilla fans, because of the stigma of playing on an illegal server.

So yeah, I’m sure they didn’t mind queues, but that’s because they had no other option to feed their addiction.

[Polizia-barthilas]

Oh, so you weren’t there to see the experience of every single spawn being camped, by groups of 5

That was my experience in the first stress test, and it was wonderful. My group joked around, got to know each other. Added each other as friends. See, those downtimes have value. I know you don’t understand that, and the devs certainly don’t. But that’s when you get to know people, socialize, make friends. Something severely lacking from the Current WoW. And something that Layering will inhibit in Classic.

It’s a way different story when you’re paying $15/month for a glorified chat room.

If your so brain dead you spent two hours tunnel vision an optional quest in a starter zone you deserve all the pain and frustration you got.

Most normal people realized this game is somewhat of a sandbox nature and made hunting parties to find quieter areas to hunt monsters for exp to get ahead of the pack.

I have no sympathy for the idiots that just blindly follow quest helper arrow to the same high traffic area it’s sending everyone else, if your to stupid to use your brain to find a better spot that’s on you.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

Why not cry about 8-10 hour queues ?

Oh also… without layering, talk about 12-24.

[Cencíl-emerald-dream]

This is exactly what I was thinking when they were streaming the tournament. There is so little people on the beta now and I still see sharding (layering, whatever) for streamers when there’s no reason to have it active.