Thanks for the chuckle.
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I still think you need to post that one on reddit so more people can see it.
I don’t understand how you can write such a great essay and be content with only a handful of people on Story Forum ever seeing it.
I’ve had half a mind to just do it myself and leave a link your post for credit.
Wait for them to do it themselves or give leave.
Wrath was before the cosmic chart, though, so the idea of titans as “beings of pure Order” comes in later … right? Am I forgetting anything that established them as “pure Order” in the Wrath era?
That was mostly just overzealous security measures, though, IIRC?
I don’t get this analogy. Shepherds want milk and wool from their sheep, so of course they want the sheep to benefit from their protection. And sheep actually need to be shorn, so shepherds taking their wool is beneficial to both parties.
The RPGs are debatable canon at best, though.
I’d say they used to come off as benevolent at the macro level, but not necessarily the micro level (i.e. the level of the natives of a planet). Which is basically agreeing with you, I think.
The only thing that hints at it back when is when Alagon tells us that the titans bathed entire worlds in the Makers Flames and killed incalculable number of beings for way less than what Azeroth was going through at the time
Was that about Order, though? I don’t remember what their reasons for using Maker’s Flames were (it’s been a while).
Not exactly. It was more a commentary on how the titans had absolutely no problem hitting the Reset button when things didn’t go the way they wanted ad they defintely didn’t have our best interests in mind
And Alagon was going to hit the reset button on Azeroth until we beat some sense into him
Well, as I said above, that strikes me more as “for the greater good” and uninterested in the micro level (planet populations can be replaced, after all), rather than actively shady. Or obsessed with Order.
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The shady stuff we didn’t start learning about until the Dragonflight novel. When the Keepers and dragons were actively stealing whelps while still in their eggs and force converting them to Order
TWW has the weekly Titan Disc quest with all the shady stuff that they been involved in with Azeroth, the World Soul. Plus what we learned in the zones themselves
Sure. I don’t think anyone disputes that the last couple of expansions have been painting the Titans as shady. But the statement of mine that you originally responded to was about how they were portrayed in WotLK and earlier. I just don’t remember Order being a big theme with them before the cosmic chart was introduced.
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It wasn’t even a big theme after the chart came out either. It wasn’t until Dragonflight that everyone spontaneously became obsessed with “Order”.
Hell until Dragonflight, Order was treated more like a category for Arcane to fit into rathert than being its own thing.
Arcane and Shadow got done real dirty by this cosmology nonsense.
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I don’t use reddit. So I literally don’t have any account there.
Reoriginating corrupt planets “is” moral. If you are broccoli number 1763 in a field of 5,000 broccoli and you have a blight growing on you… you are a threat to every other broccoli in the field. The purpose of all the growing in the field is not you as broccoli 1763… the purpose is broccoli-kind. The totality of life.
That is “not” what Algalon says. See my topic on this very forum about Algalon’s speech.
As I have had to repeatedly say on other topics all over… me being an individual with hedonistic desires on a planet somewhere is not “The Purpose” of existence, let alone life all over the Great Dark Beyond. Over and over and over again we have seen that the hedonistic desires of an individual on Azeroth has led to them trying to ritually sacrifice or torture and turn to void residue everybody else on this planet and more planets when they get around to it. The life of Rashidi the troll or Karestae the night elf on Azeroth is of barely any value compared to the World Soul inside Azeroth being preserved. If nothing else… it is needed to preserve any other planets out in the great dark that may still have sentient life on them… or if Sargeras was successful in wiping most of those out; to go out and restore those billions of planets.
When the Titans are the ones responsible for “creating” the sentient life on billions of billions of worlds; then reoriginating a planet to protect all those other billions of planets “is” moral.
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Can I post it then? I’ll credit you and put a link to your thread at the top.
If you want to, sure… though it will most probably be flooded by people desperate to flip all the lore of wow upside down; same as the click-bait youtubers cater to the past few years.
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I don’t disagree with you but I do think might have gotten a little too defensive.
Although I have no right to talk when it comes to that.
“Way less” is very ambiguous considering the only frame of reference at the time is total Old God corruption.
I mean by the time of Wrath, we were fighting off yearly threats like it was nothing.
Azeroth wasn’t in danger of total old god corruption at the time and Alagon still wanted to hit the reset button until we bear some sense into him
Indeed, the Titans and their forces were portrayed as morally gray. However, from Dragonflight onwards, I can see that they are leaning heavily towards the villains, not the Titans, but their forces. At least for now.
I very much hope that the Titans are not portrayed as villains, as they have always been seen as the “ordermakers” of the universe and it is thanks to them that life on Azeroth as we know it today can exist.
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That’s what Algalon was required to do. Loken’s death was the signal for Algalon to come, assess, and order origination if he deemed it necessary because Loken’s death was to be taken as evidence of Old God corruption due to proximity to Yogg-Saron.
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Also the planet was effed up in every single was. For Algalon it was probably like that meme of the guy walking into the room to see everything on fire.
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