Apparently Rogue (of all the classes) have a rework chalked before us, and they’re not even getting it in 10.1.5. Hunker down boys and girls, and keep that personal stash of hopium and copium stocked up because we’re in for something.
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Hopefully we’ll get some small changes next expansion 
Bahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha
Dude rogues get a rework before us now. Bruh you can’t make stuff like this up. At this point it is clearly intentional to screw monks.
Wish I didn’t love this game. Come on Riot release your league MMO, please! So much martial arts lore in that game and we can have a proper monk class finally in a MMO that is not a Korean pay to win fest.
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That really is how it is starting to feel. Everyone has put forward so many good ideas to try and help the devs get on track as to what might work but nothing ever is done except odd +3% buffs to stuff that really wasn’t the issue.
I understand the number of monk players is low but I think that is partially because of the state monk is in. Players can’t exactly be expected to line up to play something that has a hard time getting into higher level groups.
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Just a blue post saying, “We hear you monks, we’re working on things.” would go a long way in letting us know they’re paying more attention to the stay of the class than just staring at raid log performance numbers.
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This from raid perspective down to pvp. We just need something anything as the factual class that has been bottom dps getting ignored is a 100% get screwed!
Most classes cry, but we are Warcraft logs factually the bottom spec and any spec below us has a top 10 spec that performs in the 10 of all specs.
We as a WW do not have that. We literally have nothing else to swap into. We have been called out for being fake dps and we are fake dps we have no way to fight back for a m+ or raid spot. Because anyone that plays monk factually knows we do not actually bring anything.
We don’t dps, we don’t have buffs, we don’t bring utility ( no leg sweep and ring are not utility since it has to be unique to be utility, most classes can aoe stun and aoe incap) , and we impactfully dps in the bottom of every class, in fact most tanks out dps a WW monk in practical dps.
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THIS is a HUGE part of the problem in my opinion. Monks literally have ZERO specs that anyone wants for their group right now past a certain lvl. It’s ridiculous (and unfair to those who like the class).
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Slade, the hyperbole you always use talking about how monk is is insane to me. The metrics that actually represent an average player experience has us smack dab in the middle. Look at average player performance in both lower difficulties.
WW Monk has substantial damage issues at the top end which is not where most people are. Certainly not where I am and not where you are! The peak of perfect play for us is lower than other classes due to our fundamental scaling issues in the low value of three of the four substats, and that is a big issue for tight Mythic composition considerations when you’re talking about groups that are seriously looking at CE at all, nevermind aiming for WF or even a hall of fame placement. If you already have a Brew, the Monk slot is full. And if you’re in a CE group, perfect play on a monk is still likely to put you in fifth place behind an adequately played devoker or something.
That’s not most players, though, that’s not me and that’s not you. If you can’t perform in an ilvl-competitive way in a heroic or normal raid the issue is with the player, not the class.
And if you look at that last link, the true cream at the very top, Mythic 95th percentile kills, there’s actually a number of classes down in the dumpster with us. All three rogue specs for starters, which is why they are getting a rework (they were supposed to get one in 1.5 but got bumped!). Both druid specs as well, which are already getting their rework in 1.5. The ret paladins are down here too, and they just GOT a rework. Hunters aren’t well off either! And if you haven’t been paying attention, part of the mage rework is actually dragging Arcane mages back down to earth by reducing the number and power of stacking buffs they can combine while streamlining their gameplay. They’ll feel better to play but their damage is coming way down at the top end.
I am waiting to see what happens in 1.7, because we do badly need attention and we are direly due for it. Our scaling is bad in ways that are starting to bite and the build diversity within the class is absolutely nonexistent- right now you play SER FLS for PvE, end of line, and the two auras leave us very pinned for choices in the class tree. You have effectively no talent choices within SER FLS, either, due to the dud talents we have all over. We’re not the only one in need of help, but we do need attention because the complexity of proper WW play simply doesn’t pay off at the peak end. Playing perfectly on our complicated spec rotation to get Good Enough damage feels bad when watching a mastery-stacked Devokers clobber everything by pressing one button! But acting like we’re in the absolutely dire tank-dps state at all levels we were back in, say, Ny’alotha is just ridiculous and honestly embarassing panicking.
Finally, regarding “utility”, our auras and everything else make Monk the mandatory raid composition class. #1 slot, gotta have a Monk of some spec in any serious group. Mystic touch, Close to Heart, and Generous Pour have no equivalent anywhere else, in any class. Only we provide those things. This is without even considering all those more marginal or flexible utility tools you dismiss; those three things make a Monk a mandatory component of any raid seriously attempting maximum challenge content competitively. Even in the current state of our damage at the top end of perfect play, if you don’t bring a Brewmaster, you must bring a Windwalker; even where Mist is a good healer, relying on them to apply Mystic Touch is severely suboptimal. If you don’t believe me, believe Limit Max:
So for god’s sake, take a chill pill and engage with the issues our class and spec actually has today, instead of panicking and acting like it is still Summer 2020 and we’ve been outscaled and totally neglected back in Ny’alotha.
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How so? Any decent mw plays with rising mist and is therefore applying mystic touch first thing on a boss…
Otherwise your whole post focuses on raid. The utility issues that people bring is mostly foccussed around m+.
/Agree with your post otherwise 
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Multiple specs got reworked in 10.1.5 (Hpal, all 3 Mage specs, 1 entirely new spec with Augvokers), they can rework Rogues and still have room for WW.
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I expect us, hunters, and rogues to be getting attention in 1.7 tbh
The issue with WW is less about performance and more about design. The WW tree has the fewest amount of choice nodes (which add depth to a class) of any other tree in the game and most of our talents are AoE with very little ST options. In fact, we only have ONE good ST ability, RSK, the rest all do AoE or cleave damage.
Compare that with the new Ret tree that has 15 choice nodes and a lot of depth and you can see how obsolete the WW tree is.
Performance doesn’t really mean anything, it’s just a matter of tuning. You can take a 1 button class and make that 1 button do 5 million damage on a 10 sec CD and that’ll be the best performing DPS class in the game, but also the most boring to play.
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You sound like a peak of serenity cult member. Maybe lay off the Kool-Aid and see that Slade is right in most of these situations. Put down the cup of kool aid and see the logs. WW monk is bottom dps right now and has been for over a year now. That’s a warcraft log fact. Using averages which includes stoned gamers does not support your argument. using the top 95% does who in the best hands WW monk is bottom dps is the accurate picture.
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You do not get to insult people. Reported and others should do the same.
For every traditional martial artist consider this the peacock feather thrown.
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I’m pretty sure incorrectly using terms like Hyperbolic aka false information to diminish somone’s argument is actually the way to 100% lose an argument.
WW monk is factually per warcraft logs the bottom 5 dps of all specs.
That is fact no matter what the pseudo intellectual Comptrolling claims. They can use all the words they do not understand (and use incorrectly) but pretend it supports their argument all they want. The second they insult me is the second they step over the line.
I do not care that you use words they do not understand the meaning of, I don’t even care they don’t understand how using average logs is dumb, but I will not tolerate them insulting me. Especially when I am correct.
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The reality is average parses represent most players experiences. And we are average on those average parses. That’s where I am, that’s where you are, and topping meters is completely within reach in that range.
It is deeply weird to have your friends mass report a post linking logs and data as “a real life threat” and then post something like this.
The numbers are the numbers. For the average player in the median environment, we’re right in the middle.
Do you have links where WW is in the bottom 5? Because very little of the data that I can find says that.
- 95th and 75th Percentile Mythic is #6 from bottom
- 50th %ile Mythic is 8th from bottom
- 95th %ile Mythic Boss damage is #5 from bottom
- 75th %ile Mythic boss damage is #6th from bottom
- 50th %ile Mythic boss damage is #7 from bottom
- On heroic, the lowest it is is #7 from bottom at 95th %ile overall damage. Boss damage and the other %ile are all higher.
Very few of these are overly impressive, and arguing #5 from bottom vs #7 is minutiae, but given what you stated about hyperbole, I think it’s important to be as specific as possible.
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Can you link the 95th %ile data you’re looking at that shows WW in last place? Because I can’t seem to find it, but we may be looking at 2 different things.
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