Garrosh was a solid military leader in Wrath through Cataclysm. He oversaw the greatest territorial expansion to date for The Horde and lead his forces to numerous victories over The Alliance.
His downfall was his inability to work and play well with others. His brashness poisoned the well of his relationship with several key Horde leaders, but most notably Vol’jin. Garrosh managed to raise Vol’jin’s hackles long before the assassination attempt in mid-MoP. He also alienated Sylvanas and Baine.
Garrosh wasn’t always a good guy, but he was a good character.
It’s always funny how some people portray Garrosh as the worst thing ever. But nothing to say about Sylvanas, who was clearly worse and whose character was much worse than Garrosh’s. Nothing new in this forum…
Vol’jin says so himself “I have never trusted you nor would I ever have imagined in our darkest time… dat you would be the one to save us. The Spirits have granted me clarity, a Vision, they whisper a name, many will not understand but you must step out of the shadows and lead… you must be War Chief”
Sylvanas saved the Horde if it was not for her they would of died on the Broken Shore she made a true display of leadership and was recommended to him by the Loa Spirits notice that he says Spirits not Spirit thats why she was chosen.
Because Sylvanas was not present to defend herself she had no idea what had happened till after she was ambushed and almost killed when she came to Orgrimmar explaining that she had been betrayed and needed aid reclaiming Undercity.
That… made no sense and the whole Jailer and Evil Death Loa nonsense was post Before the Storm where the story went off the rails retconning everything and making absolutely no sense considering previous events.
No it hasn’t what? It was to kill Arthas something she didn’t get instead being given to some Paladin who has ZERO connection to Arthas at all.
No… what kinda weird fan fiction have you been reading?
None of this is true…
No it’s because she fell in love with Nathanos in life before she was killed by Arthas.
What? An abuse survivor yeah I am one and let me tell you something becoming your abuser is something all survivors fear which is what they did to Sylvanas.
It’s not difficult at all if you have a proper understanding, basic empathy, talk to actual survivors and aren’t a serial abuser of Women which the man in charge of Sylvanas’ story since like 2004 was.
They were both put in leadership roles over more qualified candidates because it would make the story more interesting. Thrall could have pick anyone else, he knew Garrosh wasn’t ready but gave him the Horde anyway.
Vol’jin was bamboozled into picking Sylvanas, or maybe it was the will of the Force? And her entire reign was to help the Jailer than turn on him when he was set free.
If you are talking about Sylvanas when she was Ranger General then yes, she was a good leader. However once the Jailer got part of her soul she wasn’t fully in control.
Yes I know she took full reponsibility which was a nice gesture but clearly she changed back when the Jailer crushed up that blue rock and “gave it back” to her.
… I’m just going to put everything like this:
Most of the stuff you said was “no you wrong” without reading any of the context, and then you linked a video where they started with “lava eel” and kept bringing it up. I have no idea what the heck that is about and trying to find anything about this to contextualize the reoccurring phrase that should have a specific meaning … I can only find links to Stardew Valley talking about lava eels being rare.
So I’m just going to assume that you are acting in bad faith and that also being why you swapped to another character to say post this. Have a good day.
(I will still read anything if you actually plan to making a coherent point but… repeating “lava eel” doesn’t really tell me much.)
And Garrosh and Sylvanas abandoned the Horde as a whole and swore/enslaved themselves to a higher power, Garrosh allied with the Old Gods and Sylvanas with a terrifying blue man with pointy nipples.
I did read it and whenever I responded with that it was all complete inaccurate nonsense that I can only assume you learnt from garbage fan fiction.
No they didn’t keep bringing it up.
Yuh because you clearly know very little if anything at all about Sylvanas’ lore in the Sylvanas novel it’s stated the key reason she joined the jailer is because a Lava Eel eating her mate as an act of love and not being sent to the same afterlife as her mate when she died made her sad.
Ok good for you.
No the other character was originally just made as a Forum Character I made this girl today to level a DPS to play with my friends who also play healers and figured I’d swap to her over a permanently lvl 10 rogue with heirloom gear for forums.
Like problem with always posting on main is if I ever change up what healer I’m maining I have to change what character I’m posting on got annoying.
“What are we if not slaves on this torment?”
In response to her being asked why she wasn’t happy that she was free. She began her story of free will in Warcraft III with the explicit stated mindset that she saw undeath as a curse, a torment.
But as she staked out a life for herself and her people, “built an empire” as the video phrased it as, she sought a place as part of the wider world. They weren’t accepted into the Alliance, they were attacked at home by the Scarlet Crusade, and only through the taurens convincing were they allowed to join the Horde. No one wanted them, no one accepted them.
Now take that mindset and understand that during Wrath she wanted to destroy Arthas and wanted to make use of the weapons most effective at doing so. Which meant The Blight, something she was forbidden to use by the other Horde members and in turn when Putress used it, they blamed her. This is why I asked why, and the answer is … they didn’t trust her or the Forsaken. The Horde has for all intent and purposes up until around BFA never trusted the Forsaken, not completely.
The relationship between Varessa and Sylvanas at the Trial of Garrosh.
As well as the short story Three Sisters where Sylvanas had the SECOND chance at forcefully take her sister’s lives and raise them so they could be together. Something she had even planned but chose to not do.
Which leads us onto the next person:
Correct. She was in love with Nalthanos prior to her death but her interactions with her sisters and even Anduin make sense only in light of her love and trust of Nalthanos.
She’s a character that has spent the last 30-40 years having experienced nothing but distrust, betrayal, hatred, disappointment, and a systematic worsening of her trauma. In Shadowlands they provided an additional reasoning for this in which those who have had their souls split apart by domination magic loses a part of themselves. Emotions, feelings, memories, understanding, a degree of themself in short.
Which is why they made her character “change” so drastically by instead of running away, she finally stopped to face the consequences of her own actions.
All of my reasons come from the game’s actual lore, but true I had missed that part. But now that I know what I’m actually looking for and having found what folks talk about in regards to it … crying “lava eels” seem reductionistic. As folks are talking about both that whilst yes this did in fact happen to some degree (can’t find any excerpt of that portion), when looking at the overall review of the book that folks are saying is a good one over on Wowhead … this is entirely framed as part of the manipulative aspect of the Jailor that we didn’t get to see in-game.
Can’t confirm it one way or another but, from every reference that doesn’t just meme but actually talks about these ‘lava eels’; it would seem like to be extremely reductionistic to treat it as such.
But very little of it changes at all. Because the video you linked was correct when they said that they didn’t want to deal with Sylvanas character anymore because of all of this:
So… yah’.
Even if you disagree with me, at least I hope you get now that I ain’t talking about some “fan fiction” like you keep insisting.
True enough though that I didn’t get the lava eels part but considering the review of the book I could find … I don’t think that if I had gotten around to listening to the book that I would’ve remembered any of these eels either. Since they don’t seem even remotely important in regards to the overall narrative and is rather just used to meme on social media.
Sylvanas did rally the undead of lordaeron together into a single nation and gave the free willed undead a chance in this world they would not have had otherwise. I’d say she did a pretty good job, recent actions aside.
Even during her early time as warchief she focused the horde’s efforts at the enemies that actually mattered while she went off on her own to further her actual goal. It wasn’t until BFA that she was warmongering for the sake of causing mass death for what she thought was “the greater good”. Frankly they bungled her character so hard.
Meanwhile Garrosh didn’t really do much beyond warmonger and be fantasy racist and sexist. Literally only got the job because Thrall was like “Hey, your dad was cool and you did a nice job against the scourge, want to lead one of the most powerful and influential factions on Azeroth?”
I mean, he got all of those things done. He definitely did them. Of course all of them showed what an incompetent, mouth-breathing, rageroid moron he was, but you can’t say he didn’t get anything done.
Blizzard decided to make them go full traitor instead of letting them cook. There was nothing wrong with either, imho, until they had to be set up for a raid tier. Two characters done real dirty, and at least vol’jin got put in the ground before they had him do something extra stupid.
I consider that whole raising her sisters as Forsaken as awful Fan Fiction on the same level of Garrosh in that one zone where he’s a good guy actually so
As for the rest I’m too tired to read it all like Sylvanas’ goal was kill the Lich King and after WotLK it was not dying to avoid going to WoW hell and ensure her people the Forsaken had a future like that was originally why she was in Stormheim she wanted to gain the ability to create more Valkyrie before that was retconned ensuring her immortality and that her people would not all die out.
And yet Thrall decided making Garrosh Warchief was a good idea. Garrosh was right when he said Thrall made him what he was. I mean, in Nagrand, Garrosh was a weak willed mopey depressed kid because he thought his father, Grom, was a honorless pos that doomed the entire orcish race. One quick visit from Thrall later and Garrosh went straight to trying to do his bloodthirsty father proud. And then Thrall makes Garrosh a leader when he’s still clearly an angry hateful warmonger clearly not ready for the role
