Again, I fully agree with you… Although not entirely true. In legion I don’t think it scaled properly in wpvp?
Regardless. Casual pvpers want good gear, right? One of the things they like to blame their losses on. The ilvl and ap rewarded for doing a very easy m+ was waaaaayyyyy better than trying to even get 1600 in PvP.
Again venruki made a giant post that 24 plus pages of replies literally about this. Does nobody remember the thread?!?
No one cares about wpvp.
Yep, I remember this in legion and BFA. Unless you were elite or something, running mythic+ sort of became mandatory to get the highest Ilvl gear and to get it fast.
/Sigh kinda beside the point… But to some it did pre legion. I remember PvE tanks that couldn’t even be scratched. Legion massacred wpvp.
Anyways beside the point.
Thanks 
do you remember the venruki thread? Like venruki never comes to the forums and legion PvP rewards were so bad he felt the need to make a thread. One and only time.
Anyways, people don’t get it. None of that stuff matters to me really. I’m just saying what I saw in others.
I also fundamentally disagree on what some of the issues are and how to fix them are. Realistically the only people that are playing still like you and me don’t care about any of those things. We will play regardless. We need to broaden our thoughts to what other people might be thinking 
Sort of. Venruki did complain about gear, but it was the terrible ilvl scaling. Elite PvP gear was lower ilvl than some heroic stuff from Antorus even so it felt bad that there was no avenue to be max PvP power from PvP, you would have to do M+ or raid.
I wore all my PvE sets in PvP because ilvl was higher and stuff swapped over anyways.
I’m pretty sure then even normalized class weapon ilvl for PvP too, but idr that well.
38 seasons of arena PvP is absolutely nasty work that we’re still here saying “yum, tastes good, is there extra left after”
Ah thank you! I’m impressed you found it, I could not. Yeah fair he did talk about it from the point of view that PvE gear just scaled better.
Still if you look at it. People didn’t get bis right away and quit like kennie likes to say. People quit well before bis because gearing sucked. Getting bis is kinda irrelevant to the conversation to me.
Anecdotally as I said, in legion my guild died and it was strictly because rating locked gear was no fun. Not because they got bis and got bored
Anyways my ideas are radical for lifetime wowers apparently. Not so much when you look at other more successful PvP games…
Sort of. Elite’s ilvl was only like hero tier, so M+ and raid were better avenues of gearing - and faster since you were locked on conquest but could endlessly run M+. Since you didn’t have to worry about stats as they were templates and scaled with ilvl, PvE became the way to go for fast gearing.
Again, think of the majority of people. The ones that struggle to get 1800 even. So people went to the easiest mode to gear, also like kennie says, but then quit because that’s not actually what people want to do. People want to play what they find fun… They quit when they’re not having fun. regardless of what’s easiest (bgb this season for example).
M+ was popular and so was pick up raiding, people were (like currently) pugging heroic raid and the like, so they had gear to PvP. Was in a better state than the game currently is, that’s for sure.
WoD was where a lot of people left, Legion brought a bunch back iirc.
I made a post in legion about this though. I wish I could find that one as I did a bunch of math I don’t know if I can repeat.
In WOD the PvP numbers were better than legion (admittedly longer seasons though so that adds to # of players). In WOD PvE died and legion PvP died (maybe an exaggeration, but definitely dropped from mop/WOD). I had actual numbers for that before.
Anecdotally as I said. I was in an active PvP guild with 40-80 members all through cata-wod. I heard it existed before that too, just when I joined. Then legion it died before the first half of the first season. The only people that stuck around were the ones that enjoyed PvE. I still have two of those people on my list 
they’re playing classic hardcore though…
I just love reading the 3s enjoyers responses and blaming, the crying and seething, about something they cant stop. Every “rss is the death of pvp” comment just fills me with joy.
As someone else said above, more people are willing to sit in a 20min queue for a CHANCE at a game over going into lfg and getting kicked after one loss every single time.
how’d you get like this
Probably wasn’t successful in lfg due to toxicity and/or performance and is glad that solo shuffle lets them play despite toxicity.