We need range Survival Hunters back

[Ogdenir-alleria (Ogdenir)]

Yeah, it’s unlikely they will make it ranged again but it was even more unlikely to make it melee in the first place but they still went ahead and did it. It is not unthinkable to reverse it.

If they had any plans on reversing thier changes to RSV Blizzard would have done it at the end of Legion. It was at the bottom of played specs, and would have been that forgotten change by the end of BfA.

Blizzard continues to rework and tweak MSV, so that gives a strong idea they have not given up on MSV as a hunter spec.

Making a ranged/melee toggle is pointless.

I only open up the idea of a toggle as a way to switch play-styles due to hunters old aspects, and other classes using stances to switch as well.

There would literally be no situations where you would prefer to be melee so they would have to give a damage incentive to being melee, in which case you’re just effectively back to the current state of the spec: a spec where you can do a lot of damage at range but you prefer to be melee.

Then why play a melee class in first place? If playing anythin other than range is such a hindrance why would anyone play anything other than range?

It is a solution to loosing range SV, and not erasing another play-style. It is a compromise that trys to give SV to options of play, you want to stay melee then that is a option, or you want range you can choose that too.

Making such a thing a TALENT is better because that’s a choice with permanence e.g. you don’t switch it in combat or anything so it’s more defining of your identity as a Hunter. But such a talent should not be Survival; it should be BM.

Talent is fine as well, but making it BM would require a revamp of all the specs, and more tweaking of numbers.

It would not be just a simple change, requiring hunters to ajust once more. Are we loosing MSV to bring in a melee version of BM? Do you think that will set well with MSV?

What I am referring to is making the NEW survival spec it’s own class. It very closely resembles the Everquest(EQ) Beast Master, and additional specs to go with it, since the current one would be DPS. That way the current lovers of new survival would not have to suffer through being erased from the game as well.

Not a bad thought, making a melee class that uses pet would be a unique concept. Tank, dps, but what would the last spec be focused on?

Bring back RSV and just move MSV to its own class offers hunters a solution.

[Naham-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Bring back RSV and just move MSV to its own class offers hunters a solution.

And this is where you lose me.

[Ogdenir-alleria (Ogdenir)]

We take MSV out of hunter class, without changing it, and give it a class of its own.

MSV would still exsist with in its own class, and RSV could return to the hunter class.

MSV would have a name change, but still be a melee pet spec. There could be a tank spec that uses pet for soak damage while the player damges, and maybe a spec that played like a hybrid of range and melee. Each spec could be locked to a pet, just to have a distinction between a hunter and this new class.

[Naham-bloodsail-buccaneers]

We take MSV out of hunter class, without changing it, and give it a class of its own.

I know what you meant, I mean that I not only don’t support that, but what inkling I had for RSV to return is now gone. You are talking about removing yet another Spec I love from the Class I love.

[Ogdenir-alleria (Ogdenir)]

I actually talking about having both forms of SV back in the game.

Its not any diffrent than having MSV being a fourth spec, and then bringing back RSV.

Simply moving MSV to it own class, and then having RSV returned.

[Naham-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Simply moving MSV to it own class, and then having RSV returned.

Still haven’t changed my mind. It’s not worth RSV’s return. How is it any different from just calling for it’s end?

[Ogdenir-alleria (Ogdenir)]

How is it ending anything? It would still be in the game just not in the hunter class.

Hunter is just a name, not a play-style.

[Naham-bloodsail-buccaneers]

How is it ending anything?

Well,

It would still be in the game just not in the hunter class.

Hunter is just a name, not a play-style.

It’s actually a Class within the game. You’re selling it way too short to justify just outright calling for the removal of MSV, what you spent the bulk of the thread saying that you were not doing. At least Yura and Bepples are honest about it.

Let me stress this:

You are talking about removing yet another Spec I love from the Class I love.

[Ogdenir-alleria (Ogdenir)]

You’er really just fishing for another “MSV bad bring back RSV” argument.

Bepples thinks MSV has no place in the hunter class because it does not fit with hunter fantasy.

MSV fits to some degree, but hunters have still been know as a range class for it as long as it has been in game.

However, MSV could also work as its own class, as many other games have a melee fighter with a loyal pet fighting at thier side. Others have said this before.

Removal would be deleting a spec from a game, as in how RSV was, but I have not suggested in any way MSV should be cut out to bring back RSV.

You have made the decision that RSV has to come at a cost. Hunter is a blanket that covers three unique play-styles. If hunter was what defined game play then why give each spec it own idenity?

[Naham-bloodsail-buccaneers]

You’er really just fishing for another “MSV bad bring back RSV” argument.

Wrong.

Bepples thinks MSV has no place in the hunter class because it does not fit with hunter fantasy.

That and he’s still raging over RSV’s removal.

Removal would be deleting a spec from a game, as in how RSV was, but I have not suggested in any way MSV should be cut out to bring back RSV.

Taking it out of the Class is doing just that.

You have made the decision that RSV has to come at a cost.

I actually haven’t but others in this thread have.

Hunter is a blanket that covers three unique play-styles. If hunter was what defined game play then why give each spec it own idenity?

It’s a Class in the game. Blizzard went down this road of bringing the Player and not the Class which became dividing the Classes into Specs (you can see this as there already is people referring to Specs as Classes) and they are going back to Class Identity in 9.0.

[Ogdenir-alleria (Ogdenir)]

Taking it out of the Class is doing just that.

Yes, it would move MSV, but nothing about it would be change. Still same game play, still melee, and still uses a pet. Other than a name change it would still be a spec on its own within a class other than Hunters.

Do you play a Hunter just for the name?

[Naham-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Do you play a Hunter just for the name?

I play the Class for a lot of reasons, the name is the least of it. Like I said, you are trivializing the Class. What you are now purposing is taking yet another Spec from a Class I love, and you are being dishonest about it.

[Ogdenir-alleria (Ogdenir)]

You are reading way more into a idea that was purpose to have both RSV and MSV still in the game.

It seems you want MSV to say as a hunter spec only so that you can keep on calling yourself a hunter.

A spec could still be a exact copy to paste version of MSV, but if it is not under the hunter title it is no longer in the game.

Hunter just the title of the class does not give distinction to each spec. That is up to the play-style. That why MM having some of RSV abilities does not mean you can still play RSV.

Its those small nuances that make you choose the spec you play. Calling yourself a Hunter is simply generalizing a spec. That is why Blizzard took out RSV to start with, they thought all specs played to much the same.

If a Hunter was just a Hunter then why do raids take one spec over another? You want to make anyone who supports RSV into the bad guy even if they want to find a solution that keeps both sides happy.

The heart of MSV that is staying this is just a suggestion of moving the body, and giving it a few extra limbs.

[Kazenia-proudmoore]

A spec could still be a exact copy to paste version of MSV, but if it is not under the hunter title it is no longer in the game.

Other classes can’t have traps or tame beasts.

MSV is extremely unpopular anyway. No way you can justify a whole class.

MSV may not even exist come 9.0. I’m sure there are certain minimum population standards in place. It’s a failed spec until those numbers are hit.

[Naham-bloodsail-buccaneers]

It seems you want MSV to say as a hunter spec only so that you can keep on calling yourself a hunter.

You are right about the first part, the second part is something you should keep thinking about. RSV is gone and it’s staying gone.

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

Sorry, I would NEVER ask to have the WoW BM spec removed, even though I don’t personally like it.

Aight, fair enough.

It very closely resembles the Everquest(EQ) Beast Master

Not familiar with EQ so, sorry for that.^^

That way the current lovers of new survival would not have to suffer through being erased from the game as well.

Yeah, though there’s still the issue of designing two separate classes that have ties to the Hunter concept. Making both of them distinct from one another while still not removing so much that you might as well just be playing something else entirely.

And like I mentioned in a few previous replies, if anyone thinks adding in an extra spec option to the current Hunter class would require a lot of time and work, that’s nothing compared to the above.

I only open up the idea of a toggle as a way to switch play-styles due to hunters old aspects, and other classes using stances to switch as well.

Haven’t thought a lot of how it could work really, though as long as it’s NOT meant to be a solution for us who wants RSV(as it played prior to Legion) back. I guess I would be okay with them allowing MSV to be both ranged as well as melee.

Then why play a melee class in first place? If playing anythin other than range is such a hindrance why would anyone play anything other than range?

Not entirely sure but, think Bepples was talking about a single spec having the option to be played both in melee as well as in range, then why would people choose to play it in melee.

Again, this might not be what he meant.

I know what you meant, I mean that I not only don’t support that, but what inkling I had for RSV to return is now gone. You are talking about removing yet another Spec I love from the Class I love.

This, is exactly why I’m so vocal about changes such as these should be in the form of new additions and not being replacements or in other ways altering existing specs.

And please Naham, don’t be against for example adding in RSV as a playable option just because you don’t like people’s suggestions for how it could come back. Like I said above, there are ways it could come back without “hurting” existing specs.

Simply moving MSV to it own class

I think this is what Naham is referring too here. That he wants to remain a Hunter while still having the option to play MSV.

How is it ending anything?

Most likely because if they decided to move MSV to a new class, that wouldn’t allow for example Naham to continue playing his character as that new class. He would still be a Hunter, just without the MSV option.

and they are going back to Class Identity in 9.0.

Keep in mind that they specifically mentioned that they were looking more towards adding back abilities we’ve had in the past that weren’t previously tied to a single spec but more the entire class.

They specifically said that focusing more on class fantasy didn’t necessarily mean vastly changing the core aspects of each specialization.

It seems you want MSV to say as a hunter spec only so that you can keep on calling yourself a hunter.

He keeps mentioning it because moving MSV(the spec) to become it’s own class would actually prevent him from playing it as his character is a Hunter. His character is already locked into a specific Class, not a spec.

What they can do, is allow current Hunters who would want to continue playing for example MSV if moved to it’s own class, to allow those players to essentially…“reroll” their character’s defined class.
But I very much doubt that this would turn out well.

Other classes can’t have traps or tame beasts.

Also a big problem yes.

Technically they could, but again, that would essentially make us have two separate classes with very similar toolkits. Just with different core abilities.

RSV is gone and it’s staying gone.

And this is where you lost me Naham…

You are now saying that you are against the return of RSV of principal rather than looking at if it would make sense for it to return or not.

[Naham-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Keep in mind that they specifically mentioned that they were looking more towards adding back abilities we’ve had in the past that weren’t previously tied to a single spec but more the entire class.

They specifically said that focusing more on class fantasy didn’t necessarily mean vastly changing the core aspects of each specialization.

I took as in our case, things like Arcane going to BM and not just MM and Chimera being viscera with Intimidation going baseline.

[Naham-bloodsail-buccaneers]

You are now saying that you are against the return of RSV of principal rather than looking at if it would make sense for it to return or not.

That statement about it not returning wasn’t about principal, it was more about how this community is no longer a community and getting RSV back is impossible as long as the community casts out MSV players like myself. We could have got it back, and we could have come closer had we hounded Blizzard about getting the playstyle through MM. But the rejection of that idea has made it impossible. Last night I did over 25 miles of walking at work alone, burnt over 4500 calories and took in less than 3500. I was tired, it was late, and I’m wasting words even now.

[Gladewolf-medivh]

It always had melee abilities. They decided to try something. It got a pretty hardcore cult popularity in Legion. It still had, and has, dot and physical damage.

ALL Hunters had melee abilities…not just SV

[Gladewolf-medivh]

Not familiar with EQ so, sorry for that.^^

No need to apologize, I realized my error when I saw your response.

Yeah, though there’s still the issue of designing two separate classes that have ties to the Hunter concept. Making both of them distinct from one another while still not removing so much that you might as well just be playing something else entirely

This is part of the problem to me at the moment, I DON’T consider the new survival spec to be a hunter at all
A new pet plus melee class is a totally different class to me. I get that some people DO like it so I don’t think it’s fair to them to just remove it, but we deserve to have our 3rd spec back.

I do understand it might be work intensive, but i’m sure they burned the midnight oil screwing it up in the first place. Let’s not give them a free pass because it will be “difficult”.