BTW I looked it up. I found its tooltip still said it cost mana, but does this mean it was actually unusable? I couldn’t find whether that part was true.
Also, isn’t that an indictment on Counterattack still being in the game rather than the Focus system as a whole? Counterattack had little reason to exist in Cataclysm.
Yes, it was. I tried it.
It was proof that they gave the Class little attention despite giving it a new resource. It wasn’t because of the fact that it was “Counter Attack,” but because Blizzard didn’t have the ability to care about our Class. Remember when they said that we were playing SV wrong only to admit that they did not even know how to play it? That was the same era.
True.
But I wouldn’t say that this has to stop the class from evolving, going forward.
I stick to my opinion that, they should NOT have removed ranged SV just because they wanted to add in a melee spec. They should’ve made it a 4th spec from the start.
But as long as they had kept the specs we had at the time, as they were in terms of general playstyle and focus, going forward. I would have nothing against them adding in a melee option for those that would want one.
This is not what happened…
I have mentioned this in the past. They did an interview in connection to the development for the Legion expansion. There’s a link to this interview somewhere in this very thread. Somewhere closer to the earlier replies.
In this interview, the lead devs flat out stated that a big reason for why they chose to make SV a melee spec was because they felt that ranged SV was to similar to MM. It was essentially the same spec, just with different arrows or traps.
Now, I haven’t talked to any of them directly ofc. But reading this, you can’t help but thinking that there was no realistic way that this is what they actually thought of the specs.
Ask anyone who played the ranged SV spec in the past, ask anyone.
Most, if not all would answer that the defining core of what SV was about back then, and how it played, was very different from that of MM.
Sure, by todays standards you could find some similarities. But, considering the overall spec design that we have today, that kind of explains itself.
Forego my previous argument that the statement they gave in that interview wasn’t going to hold up anyway as all specs changed so drastically with Legion.
Either, those that were managing the development for the class back then, either they hadn’t actually played MM and SV, and that was the reason for why they thought they were the same as one another.
Or, the more likely scenario(IMO ofc), is that someone, or some within the team, really just wanted to add in a melee spec for the class. And while in the process of deciding what spec they should turn into melee, they ended up with SV, being that choice.
The fact that they chose SV for this, does not surprise me. Beast Mastery was essentially THE spec that most players associated with the core fantasy of the class. Changing that to melee would’ve caused even more outrage than what it did in the end. Marksmanship, there is just no logical way for why you should even consider this to be a spec that focuses on melee combat.
That left them with SV…
At least that makes for a much more plausible reason for why they decided to make SV a melee spec. Rather than the reason being that they just did not have a vision for what the ranged SV spec could be going into Legion. With a focus on Spec Fantasy and identity.
Rather than them thinking that they had to turn SV into a melee spec because there just was no way to make it distinguishable from MM(while still keeping it ranged).
Btw Bepples, that quote of yours. It wasn’t I who said that. 
Have edited in something in my original post in this thread which brings up my suggestions for a 4th spec option that is ranged SV.
#We need range Survival Hunters back - #457 by Ghorak-laughing-skull
Edited the passive Lock and Load effect.
Edit: Getting a proc from Lock & Load, won’t affect the base re-charge system of Explosive Shot. Example: If you have 2 charges of Explosive Shot available and you get a L&L-proc, you will then have 3 charges. 1 of which costs no Focus. Keep in mind that L&L has a limited duration.
When the buff expires, so does any extra charge that you haven’t yet used.
What does this mean?
Well, let’s say that you have 1 charge left of Explosive Shot, the 2nd charge, is still waiting to finish re-charging. No pun intended…
Then you get a L&L-proc.
You will now have 2 charges of Explosive Shot available to be used as you see fit.
However, that second baseline charge that was coming off CD in a bit, will continue to re-charge. So, if you haven’t yet used 1 of the 2 available charges before the 3rd comes off CD. You will then have a total of 3 charges available for use. Or 4, 5, 6…this all depends on how lucky you are with getting Lock and Load-procs.
But as the quote states(and due to how L&L worked in the past), it has a limited duration so, any extra charges not spent when the buff runs out, they will disappear as well.
Also added a completely new tab. It contains some ideas on potential Set Bonus effects/Bonus Traits. Depending on if we get a new e.g. progression system or similar.
Since we continue to want this (minus a couple guys), lol it seemed like time for a bump.
Really hoping the devs see some of the ideas in here and roll with it into a fourth spec.
A new idea I heard recently, was the combining of msv and BM. Which would open up the third spec, to have a ranger(ranged survival) return.
Any thoughts on how to tune or combine melee survival and beast mastery? I’d be curious to see it done since they now share so many abilities.
Also, super interested in how the ranger spec would evolve from how we were in cata/mop, to be competitive today. Penalties for being dispelled? Not dispellable at all? Increased front load dmg? (Having explosive shot or serpent sting not having good front load dmg was a big part of the Nerf that made the spec fall apart in the first place)
I hope to see some great things come out of the PTR in the future for 9.0
I personally loved the shot spamming from LnL that stacked the dmg higher. It would work amazing if you got multiple procs though. After they fixed the (shot clipping) it made for a faster paced play
That is the intent.^^
It did yes.
Although if you look at my design suggestions, in the talent section(the T.N.T.-talent)
#[Suggestions updated] Pre-Legion/Ranged Survival
That talent is designed for you to want to do some “clipping” with Explosive Shot, in order to increase the max duration of it. As it gives you extra uptime, and free damage.
I haven’t specified how much you should be able to extend ES with that mechanic, but I would say up to a max of 9 seconds or so, when you do it manually. And if you also get a proc on the Exotic Munitions-passive effect, it could be extended above the 9second mark.
Manually, you shouldn’t be able to keep ES up permanently on a single target. But with some luck on LnL-procs or Exotic Munitions, you could keep it up for quite some time.
Maybe even on two targets for cleave damage. Although, that’d require you to reach rng-heaven in terms of procs^^
This is also a reason for why I did some changes to my suggestion for LnL as a passive effect.
So that if you’re lucky with getting LnL-procs, it would make you capable of “carrying” more than 2 charges max of Explosive Shot. For a limited duration ofc. Due to the nature of LnL.
This is from another thread, but would be a more possible solution to MSV and giving Hunters what they wanted as a melee option.
BM has been in WoW lore the melee spec and would require the least amount of redesign:
Barbed Shot => Lacerate
Cobra Shot => Raptor Strike
Kill Command => Kill Command
Bestial Wrath => Bestial Wrath
Only two abilities would change to melee.
Then Blizzard would just have to take out Raptor Strike, Kill Command, and Coordinated Assault then reintroduce Explosive Shot back into MSV, so we have RSV again. I think Wild Fire Bomb fits more than Black Arrow, or give other bomb choices, like shrapnel bomb or sticky bomb, RSV core play-style should be poisons and elemental damage, not magical leave that for MM.
i kind of made a list of it in the middle part of this thread.
So SV just gets better and better as we scale. I’m starting to be able to reliably kill UH dks, which is really the only spec that’s on par with Survival atm.
Best spec ever.
Kindwolf, you’re really an odd guy. You keep resurrecting this thread just to further hammer how much you like MSV.
It’s fine that you’re fun. Actually, I’m glad you’re having fun!
But, dude, it can — and does — come off like you rubbing salt in the wound. There are a fair number of players who outright lost their gameplay, and some of them hasn’t found another enjoyable alternate. Just leave them be.
And for goodness sake… let this thread die, please. 
When they give me my 4th spec option that is an updated ranged SV version. I’d be happy to leave this thread to the archives 
Kind already has tried to start a love MSV topic, but he was the only one posting and its dead now.
You mean the one with 62 replies? You silly dwarf.
I haven’t been on the Hunter forums in awhile, so just wanted to add my two cents.
I don’t really care if anyone thinks I’m wierd, or if this thread dies.
It actually is a perfect example of the ridiculous Anti SV mentality. And the spoiled people who can’t adapt and cry about something that is highly unlikely to happen.
All of which is very unhealthy.
I really LIKE having a melee option. I wouldn’t say no to a 4th spec bringing back the old Survival feel though, now that MM has shifted away from it again.
I miss Skywall, how’s that server doing?
62 vs. 622 whose has the dead thread? Its not that you like MSV, as other have posted the same rebuttal, it is that you post to rub it in others faces, and call yourself not a troll but clearly call out posters to get a reaction.
I’d say neither are dead, not sure why that matters.
Man if my posts upset you so much, just don’t read them…lol. Or better yet don’t support a thread in which many call for the removal of my spec?
It’s seen better days, I’ll tell you this. Horde doesn’t really have a good raiding environment, and the Alliance isn’t that much better. I hate to say this, but Skywall died back in the late days of MoP and it never recovered.
Sorry to hear.
I don’t since you always repeat the same line.
You have such bad reading comprehension. It been posted numerous
times that MSV can stay we are looking for a way to bring back RSV. Likewise, “YOUR” spec came with a cost of loosing a play-style that many players loved as well, so do not try to play victim.