This! I seriously see this topic at least once a week. People need to give it a rest! Go enjoy your boring cheerleading BM spec or play MM with explosive shot if you miss ranged survival. When are these crybabies going to realize Blizz won’t change their stance on Surv because they cry about it on the forums every other day. It’s about as old as the “Do you not have cellphones??” meme!
Know what else I see every week, "I like melee Sv, “I want flying now”, or “Why High Elves work”. If the topic bothers poeple so much then stay away from it. All you have done buy whining about the topic is bumped it back up, which then others can see then reply again just creating the cycle.
And the reasons why the issue continues to be brought up id that there was no replacement for range SV. Just adding some talents to MM does not capture the playstyle of SV. Until there is some substitute for range SV expect to continue to see this topic again and again.
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My thing is the way survival works now makes more sense as a ranged class with a random melee ability in there like it was originally. A dot/control centered mobile ranged class built around cc and sustained pressure. Which is basically what survival is now, except its this weird mix between ranged, melee and BM. (And its also super weak defensively for a melee class). The rotation is super clunky too. BM makes the most sense as melee. Its too late now, but its so true.
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@Kindwolf
I am glad that you love surv melee spec and you are all for it. However, range surv was good or great (depending on who you ask) at some point in WoW history.
There is no need to keep bragging or gloating about how surv melee spec is awesome and how range surv sucked. Be respectful to other people’s likes and dislikes.
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What I miss about Legion version of SV, even though it was all over the place with abilties, was there was always something to use.
The BfA version just feels gutted and like they were trying to please the crowds. We want range SV, well lets throw in more range abilities leave one melee attack, BM should have been melee, give them Kill Command. You want to keep your player base happy, but do not give in so much thst the spec looses its identity.
I would like Mongoose Bite to be base and used as the big spender, while Raptor Strike was its builder. Just remove KC but keep the bleed on the pet.
Just let them gloat. They been trying to troll the post and calling them out just gives them what they want.
KC is awesome for SV. It wouldn’t be as adaptable without it. I’m never lacking something to use…not sure where that’s coming from.
BM would never work as melee due to pet AI, at least not in a pvp setting.
It would simply rely on damage from pet less.
The main issue with Range survival is that it will demand aspects of all other talent trees. Strong Pet Damage, Strong Range, and Tool Kit Of Survival. It’s not exactly unique just a jack of all trades.
What I can agree is remove explosive shot front MM and redesign it as another mid range option for Melee Survival make the rotation a bit more challenging
Like honestly. This is how bm melee could work. A wild protector “10% reduced” damage buff on pet for those around it. A dot applied by pet, with spirit bond baked in and and kill command as a resource builder.
Flanking strike as the gap closer.
Raptor strike as main ability.
Lacerate as a dot.
High damage long cooldown filler ability
Intimidation baseline
Traps
Exhiliration and turtle
Keep pet schools and accompaning buffs from them.
Pet plays the role of support for the melee hunter, instead of primary damage source. More skill, more engaging and dynamic gameplay than bm has ever been.
And then you can redesign ranged survival.
Sounds a lot like SV…
I guess thats my point. I just think melee hunter should have taken over bm and not survival and have had survival the quirky cc/dot based ranged class that people liked
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So you want BM, the most popular Hunter spec, to be like current SV. Make SV ranged again, although no one played/would play it over MM…
I feel like this discussion is like playing chess with a pigeon.
Sure, you can use the best strategy, make all the right moves. But in the end the pigeon is just going to knock over all the pieces and crap on the board anyway.
I guess my point is how i would little skill bm takes and how unrewarding its play is, and how much it degrades a pet centered physical class. Its mechanics, in pve and pvp, are just the most simple out there. Kite while doing little damage yourself while the pet does the majority of your damage. Its garbage mechanics. And hunters are overrepresented by talentless players, the majority of those are bm. A pet class should have to either melee or cast. Not run around casting instants. If you opened up ranged survival and put some work in on it, lots of players would flock to it.
Except ranged SV died years ago.
Yea im not a ranged survival fanboy, i dont like archer classes, im just here to argue why bm makes the most sense as a melee hunter role, which i think there should be.
And I might agree with you, if this were three years ago.
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Valid point
No, they really don’t. They are highly anecdotal. There were plenty of people saying that about Legion SV too. SV’s playerbase is very small and is, as a result, extremely closely-knit. They’ll defend the spec and deny its flaws to the ends of the earth. It also gets a lot of pity from other players and so enjoys support from there, but none of this translates to actual player activity. Its representation is pitiful in end-game content, including PVP at this point.
You can’t accurately count how many people are playing it out and about, but let’s be honest; you don’t see that many in game, do you? That line of logic, as has already been mentioned, assumes that Survival uniquely has some hidden population that never goes into any trackable end-game content. Which is a farce. Why would this affect Survival but no other spec?
As for the EU thing: that’s a useless point. Firstly, AFAIK these warcraftlogs and worldofwargraphs numbers do, in fact, count EU players. Secondly, you can just add the EU populations to the US ones for every spec. Do you expect Survival to be proportionally higher when you do that? That would require there being an unusually high number of SV Hunters on EU v.s. the US realms. Just like the last example, there is no reason to assume this is the case.
The mere fact that SV relies so heavily on BM elements (Kill Command, Coordinated Assault, Spirit Bond) indicates that BM is more fitting for melee gameplay. And that makes sense. There are two major parts of the Hunter identity: ranged weapons and pets. If you are missing one, you rely more heavily on the other. Also, of those two, ranged weapons are clearly the bigger factor. MM lacks pet interaction so it doubles down on the ranged weapons. If you lack ranged weapons you need to go all in on the pets to make up for it. If you lack both, you’re Arms Warrior 2.0, not a Hunter spec. There is no melee Hunter identity that isn’t based on pets. Just look at the one lore character that every SV Hunter uses as an excuse for full melee: Rexxar. He is literally a Beast Master.
You literally had to make an SV praise thread to fill better about the spec after this thread. The “oh I don’t care” angle doesn’t work for you anymore.
They changed their stance in the very first expansion that came out after SV went melee, i.e. BFA. They came out and said that SV was too different and unfamiliar as a Hunter spec and therefore needed a better balance of ranged and melee. That means they literally identified being fully melee as a problem for SV holding the spec back. So, actually, their stance on the issue is not set in stone.
Ranged SV didn’t rely on stealing other spec’s abilities to be complete ![:smiley:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
Who knows why you are going on about this pet AI thing. You literally just acknowledged SV has Kill Command. You’re dependent on your pet AI as SV right now.
You are literally posting from a class that has 3 melee specs all based on one-handed weapons and stealth. Who are you to talk about there being no room for a 3rd ranged spec in the Hunter class?
SV would have minimal pet dependence and be just as ranged-capable as MM. It’s damage delivery would be different, being based in DoTs rather than burst. This is exactly the sort of distinction specs are meant for. We already have ranged specs in the game that distinguish themsleves with differences like this e.g. Affliction v.s. Destruction or Fire v.s. Arcane.
People feel that way when discussing with you, too, because you blatantly ignore facts and lie about history.
SV was the most popular Hunter spec when they decided it should go melee. Yes, it was more popular than MM. Didn’t stop them then, did it!?
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Lol wall of text. Ranged SV isn’t coming back. Cheers to that.
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Honestly, it would be cool if they kept the spec as it is, but added an option to play it ranged (with a bow)… Then there would be melee Surv Hunters AND ranged Surv Hunters… It would be very interesting to say the least. I don’t see why we can’t have the best of both worlds, or is that some kind of blasphemy…LOL
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