I did specify myth level.
That doesn’t matter. Blizz already broke all the “rules” you outlined with the reward structure for Delves in Season 1.
Level absolutely does matter, especially considering you cam get 5 619 enchanted crests to make hero-level items from only open world and a single solo-queue follower raid.
If level didn’t matter there wouldn’t be any complaint here because delves also drop loot.
I can’t agree with this notion. You can very easily make solo content harder than group content. Like, i get what you’re saying, group content you have to rely on others as well, and not just on yourself, but at the same time, there’s plenty of examples of more players = easier.
Like, 40 man raids were honestly easy enough that you could carry a lot of dead weight so long as you had enough actual good players, sometimes WotLK raids were harder in 10m than 25m due to more strict group makeup, even flex raids had some bosses, like the Generals in Nathria, that were harder with fewer players. There’s certainly examples of the opposite also being true, yes, but we’re talking about whether or not larger group size correlates to difficulty.
The REAL problem with solo progression is that WoW classes and specs are VERY varied, with some being way better at soloing than others, which makes it nigh impossible to build a challenging but fair solo experience. Warlock green fire was fantastic because only Warlocks could do it, so it was built around their toolkit. I’m pretty sure Destro was still better suited to it than Demo or Aff were, but still. Mage Tower was also great because it was several challenges with your spec being put into the challenge it was (probably) best suited for, and even then there were occasional changes to those fights based on your class.
But then we look at Horrific Visions and Delves, particularly Zekvir ??. Those were just designed once and expected everyone to be able to solo it. While Horrific Visions was eventually compensated for by unlocking more stuff, you’d have to be blind to not see that some classes were obviously way better tooled towards soloing 5 mask visions than others. Meanwhile Zekvir was nightmarish on many specs and relied heavily on RNG and on Brann.
That is the single biggest obstacle to solo progression, and frankly the only solution is to just go “Screw it, it’s easier to do than other content but you can’t spam it or whatever”
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Sure but if people want to solo with AI “followers” then what’s the argument against that? It has no impact on those who would rather play in a group doing M+.
Also there is a middle ground. If the “followers” were alts then leveling alts and selecting talents would impact what the “followers” could do.
M+ has CC assignments? People use Sap, Polymorph, Banish etc in M+? Coulda fooled me
That sums up how my feelings have changed on this subject.
I have friends who just do Delves since they don’t like M+ and Raids. If they were able to reach the max iLevel each Season by the end I say god speed since that will keep them playing and doesn’t effect me in any way.
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Crowd control doesn’t only mean “sheep star!”
There’s not an example of this anywhere in the game, outside of perhaps some specific mage tower challenges on some specs. Guardian druid I did in 2 tries with whatever gear I had when I hit 70 though
It removes the challenges that need to be handled by 4 or 19 other players including two of three role-specific challenges.
Polymorph and Sap are defintely the least used because of the cast time and stealth requirement, but yet people use their CC abilities.
The timer does make it pretty bad. You have no chance with a new group to discuss strategy or change of strategy during a run, and if it is a pug, you likely will not be together for the next run. There should be a no timer M+ version that still doesn’t deplete the key.
So every boss and trash pack needs mechanics that allow them to enrage and form a time limiting factor, otherwise it is just the far easier mode for getting items and portals.
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I actually would like some improvments to delves to add challenge progresion based on class (really hard to imaginé blizz puling this).
Also wish they add the Tier token to delves to clearing a 11 was much harder than get 1600 on PVP day one
Also this could be a bad take, I would like getting hero 1/6 from Bountifuls at 11 (without toching or adding myth gear at the vault)
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As long as the loot you get is drastically diminished to reflect how much easier no timer will be.
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That it’s orders of magnitude easier than m+ without followers.
But that’s still just ai playing the characters, and it’s got to be designed for the AI to be able to do it regardless.
At this point we’re turning wow into an auto battler…
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- Raids have LFR/normal/heroic/mythic so there’s options.
- Dungeons have solo/normal/heroic/mythic/mythic + so obviously lots of options.
- Questers have leveling quests, MSQ, exploration, world quests, dailies, world bosses, rares etc… TONS of options, but most of it is designed around solo so it’s kind of hard to really make it too difficult.
- There’s also delves and historically other content that is scaled for solo players.
IMO there’s options of content, but the rewards on questing and solo stuff isn’t as high as group content and that should be the case for an MMO. I think SOME high level items is fine, but at the end of the day the best way to gear the best stuff should be raid, then dungeons, then other stuff.
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There’s too much focus on keeping the player chasing the carrot, instead of making the carrot chase itself enjoyable. The nature of M+ means you’ll be in a constant state of incremental gains, stuck doing the same thing over and over just with bigger numbers each time
Players don’t need constantly greater rewards to keep coming back to do content if the content itself were actually fun. I know I ran the green fire quest multiple times after my first clear just because the fight was so damn fun…
So, m0’s then? We have that already.
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Yet they are completely different types of CC. Shadowfury isn’t used to remove mobs from a pull, and Banish definitely isn’t used to temporarily stun a mob mid-pull. You’re arguing semantics even though you damn well know what I mean by CC assignments.
I listed several examples in my post. I can take it a step further, too. Horrific Visions and Torghast were significantly easier to run with 5 people than they were solo. I’ve never bothered grouping with Delves but I assume it’s the same there presuming the wonky group scaling was fixed.
I just wish delves gave more crests. That alone forces people into mythic+
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Kick assignments, stop assignments, yes. Hard cc isn’t used as much but it’s a good fallback if you have to stop something and don’t have much else.
If people had access to the tools we have now in tbc there wouldn’t be any sheep moon sap square either.
Bliz even attempted twice to introduce hard cc to m+, first with infested and later with inspiring. People Hated it.
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