I supoort the creation of an evil faction that any race can join, with the exception of LFD, and Palladins.
I second this as well, I liked the get along thing but now its ugh, I want to feel evil!!! skeletor laughter*
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As fun as this would be, it would increase the dev time on blizzard quite a bit, because then they would have to worry about making three faction quest lines for every expansion and patch.
For real. Back when i first got wrath i thought it was going to be a thing. I was so disappointed when it wasnt. It could have been amazing.
But i guess the power of friendship is nice too 
Battle for Azeroth Horde was evil af.
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As much as Iâd love an evil faction, I doubt weâll be getting that, at least not now. I have a feeling blizzard will eventually just remove the factions altogether since theyâve been getting more and more neutral towards eachother.
Maybe they could make the horde and alliance fight under the same flag and make an entire new evil faction for players to join.
Thereâs a lot of text in there, so Iâm not going to bother quoting it and making this a mile long.
But no, having the obvious âgood guyâ and âbad guyâ options for storytelling really just doesnât work these days. Nuance is extremely important.
Iâm not sure if you ever played the Mass Effect games, but there was a "morality system in some of them. Certain things were locked behind paragon or renegade paths. Most people didnât really care what the options were, it just mattered which abilities they wanted. If you liked the renegade stuff, you were picking the renegade options 99% of the time regardless of what it was. That is objectively bad game design/storytellling.
And no, this doesnât bleach or homogenize the game like you claim it does. The alliance isnât 100% paragons of virtue and the horde isnât 100% evil baby eaters. There are good and terrible people among both. Trying to paint a faction as entirely good or bad is lazy and not great storytelling.
The forsaken are evil, or at least a lot of the leadership was. A lot of the experiments performed by the RAS were absolutely terrible. However, there is a small faction that doesnât want to be part of that war and just wants to go back to the lives they had. With things like allied races, that could be a great story. But no, all forsaken must be 100% evil I guess.
Finally, you mentioned that itâs cool and fun to have characters do incredibly dumb things for reasons. It works a time or two, but after a long while, it just gets frustrating and annoying. How many times is this supposedly great leader going to make the exact same brain-dead mistake and pick up an unnecessary war immediately after they just got finished defeating some cosmic threat? All that does is prove that they are too stupid to learn.
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umm sorry evil no longer exists, undead cannibals, demon worshipping orcs, and human sacrificing trolls are misunderstood now.
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While the first oneâs still being worked on, Thrall pretty effectively stomped out the other two in Vanilla WoW.
"In the colonized landscape of Azeroth, where the shadows of oppression cast long and the echoes of injustice reverberate through stolen land, there exists a misunderstood intersectional faction whose very existence challenges the pillars of the patriarchal hegemony. "
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Disagree.
How much nuance is equally important. I argue you need some nuance, but also need clear good and evil for perspective.
Not sure this applies here. You seem to be advocating balancing issues more than story-telling.
Both factions are pretty damn virtuous now. Who are the terrible people among the Horde right now, much less the Alliance? And no, do not cite the Manâari at me for the Alliance. That was crap writing that the Alliance trusted them enough to let them in, and they are hardly influential.
The Forsakenâs leadership was evil, and we were seeing efforts being made going back all the way to cata to fill their ranks with less malicious characters, throwing themselves on grenades selflessly. Now? Theyâre pretty much just like everyone else, but MAYBE with a slight propensity for jerks who hate everyone than others. They have a Lightforged Queen ffs.
No, 100% of them do not need to be evil, but the vast majority should have been kept that way so the people who like that can have what they like. The direction it has been going is the complete wrong one.
The Horde needs to keep its edge. What needs to happen, is the Alliance needs to catch much more of an edge itself.
Iâm sorry, but which genuinely great leaders do we have that have actually picked up an unnecessary war of their own volition? This isnât even just about the leaders. There is pressure on them from their people.
People expect the cosmic threats to stop in these sorts of settings. They wait for them to while resentfully tolerating truces with enemy peoples who have enslaved and genocided them, disputed claims to land and resources etc. They may even attack one another while the big bad is still a threat. Because they still think they and their allies will still prevail against all enemies. They do not just forget stuff over a few decades and make efforts to make lasting peace and friendship, even if they worry another big bad may pop up. Especially when those big bads have been defeated every time without more than a truce.
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You are right about everything you said, but ⊠itâs a culture thing.
The belief that adults are not responsible for their actions, that there is no such thing as evil, no such thing as truth, only points of view ⊠Itâs all over the game because the people that write the story subscribe to that line of thinking.
They could not write anything differently, it would require a different writer.
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No, it does apply. Because of how the system worked, people chose the option for the path they wanted regardless of what the actual option was. You were either choosing all Paragon or all Renegade a majority of the time.
The same could apply to WoW. The actual races may not even matter, the only thing that does is if you want to be Paladin Goodguy to save the universe or Shadow Priest Babyeater and be a murder hobo. Those are two generic and bland choices.
Yeah, the horde have changed things up because they are no longer tainted by the fel and have ousted leaders that wanted to turn them into an army for their own purposes. Should the horde have just sided with the Sylvannus and said âyeah, lets be fodder for the Jailer!â. No, thatâs incredibly stupid. So yes, they are going to try and distance themselves from incredibly evil factions. Theyâve been controlled by other forces before, why do it again?
That was in response from another comment of yours saying itâs cool and fun to have the NPCs act even dumber than people would in the real world.
If they make mistakes or do something stupid when they arenât thinking straight like having a friend murdered or something, they can absolutely make a mistake. But having them act dumb over and over just for the sake of acting dumb is just really boring and bad.
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So you say, but Iâm not seeing a compelling argument regarding the narrative or quality of the story. Your argument is that people may pick a side for reasons that have nothing to do with moral alignment. What does that have to do with storytelling?
Bad game design? Maybe. Once again, thatâs a balancing issue in that case. Making sure both sides provide appealing mechanical features is separate from the main topic. Iâd go as far as to accuse you of strawmanning tbh.
The people who want to play the darker faction they used to have would get what they want. They deserve that, no matter how generic you think it is.
More importantly, the fact is it wouldnât need to be quite that cut and dry as paladin goodguy vs baby eater. You just assert that it would. Obviously both should exist to some degree, but the degree and situation is important.
A lot of people donât want all that fel taint gone. They want that to stick around narratively.
First a strawman, now a false dilemma⊠as if the only options had to be either the Horde siding with/feeding the Jailer (or any other bigger more malicious/ broadly antagonistic force) or turning into what it is now. Horde doesnât need to end up pretty much as virtuous as the Alliance to not ally with or be controlled by far more evil factionsâŠ
You didnât answer the question either. Where are the terrible people amongst either faction right now? Donât just make a baseless claim.
I am aware.
You are evading the question. Which great leaders? You argue our leaders are are too great to avoid making stupid decisions like going to war with the enemy faction after finishing off a greater threat. Who do we know truly matches that description right now among our leaders? Moreover, even if we have such a great leader, you ask how many times will they make the âbrain-dead mistakeâ of starting another war against the opposing faction⊠when that hasnât happened at all when it would make total sense for it to happen a couple times.
No, it shouldnât matter if they are thinking straight. Stupid mistakes would hapoen regardless.
I am not talking about them acting dumber than people irl ad nauseum like you are suggesting. I am explaining why it is a faulty argument to say it makes no sense for the Horde and Alliance to still hate eachother and want to subdue or destroy one another because of a few bigger threats having shown themselves recently.
Also, they wouldnât be acting dumb for itâs own sake. Theyâd be doing it because they are justifiably hung up on the past. Thereâs a lot to be hung up on.
The current narrative is far more boring than a leader acting dumb. Worgen and Forsaken holding hands as they work together to retake Gilneas? Really? You find that entertaining, despite how blatantly cheesy it is?
Come the Fel onâŠ
Far more likely that you just have a cross-faction agenda and do not actually care about the writing sucking as long as you get what you want mechanically.
Give me meaningful conflict. Not some utterly fabricated npc opponent that just pops into existence without any past story development.
A player faction that fills a more villainous role than either one currently does is needed. Both for the story, as well as for players who want it.
EDIT: To be clear, I am okay with how things were between the factions in DF as long as itâs temporary. A short period of peace and amicable relations between the factions can actually be great⊠it would be quite a compelling story for us to get so close to lasting peace between the factions like we have once before, in fact even closer this time⊠just for it to crumble, and hostilities rise once again⊠it would be beautiful.
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That would be awesome !
Thereâs already enough division in this game as-is. I could already see the bickering if another faction was added, and all the people crying and complaining about the bias to the new faction and how unfair it is that they get to keep getting away with killing their faction or destroying their cities.
I think itâs a good idea in theory, but people get so upset whenever anything of consequence actually happens.
But we already have the Alliance.
I donât know about you, but my main is coming up on 2 decades of an unrelenting genocide against Murlocs, Gnolls, Kobolds (oh, Iâm TAKING that candle) and others. While we have Wrathion and friends now, in the first few expansions, all black dragonflight kin were murdered on sight. Naga still on that kind of relationship.
All of the above are sentient creatures, deserving of something other than âGo kill 20 X because they ruined Farmer Jeffâs radishesâ.
You want an evil faction, look at what weâve been doing forever.
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Arthas made you upset? lol.
i miss garrosh 