Stop it, you will entirely destroy disc priests if you do this for pvp
4 Likes
Speak for yourself. It’s an inherently unhealthy ability in PvP.
A 1.5m cooldown that allows a healer to throw out several Life Cocoon-sized bubbles is bad design. It allows even the worst player to make multiple teammates invincible for its duration.
Removing it and bumping up the baseline strength of PW:S will be a healthy change. It isn’t as if Discipline will be lacking in external CDs – they have some of the most, even without Rapture. This will help their throughput outside of CDs.
4 Likes
We can’t assess the effects the announced changes will have yet because more have to be coming. Discipline is just too unfinished with these changes alone.
Just a few examples:
Twilight Equilibrium? Still one of the worse talents in the whole game. Maybe it does something for oracle if Shadow Covenant gets nerfed, but it it’s worth nothing whenever Shadow Covenant or voidweaver get played.
Luminous Barrier? Still worse than Mass Barrier and comes at the cost of PW:B.
Uppies? Still the value of a 45-60s cooldown with a 240s cooldown that likely results in your own death.
Oracle? Still trash in PvE. Smite doing more damage than Void Blast baseline is cool and all but doesn’t mean anything when it doesn’t get the 150% increase atonement throughput.
The updated left side of the tree that empowers traditional healing spells? Doesn’t give them enough power to actually heal like a traditional healer.
Contrition getting rolled into Penance? 1/3 of a Flash Heal on the whole party is not enough to incentivize Penance cast on an ally.
The talent tree? Still 6 unnecessary 2-pointer nodes. You could argue that Harsh Discipline merits two points, but none of the others. The class tree is untouched despite being by far the worst class tree in the game since DF beta.
It’s fun to complain about how terribly Blizzard handles priest, but we need to see the stuff they’re holding back before we claim the sky is falling. It probably is - every single time they’ve touched priest since Legion has looked woefully lazy and incomplete and just the first round of changes only to turn out to be the first and last draft of the changes - but we do genuinely need to give it until the next build at least before we know.
6 Likes
I wanted it gone the day it became a thing.
It’s not the worst class tree, Druids had the worst class trees. They still do, btw, but this change coming in to them now is by far better than what they’ve been dealing with, but yes Priest has a bad class tree.
So I don’t want Rapture pruned, I like rapture, especially its current iteration. Buuut…
Eh, come on. It’s better than most healer 3 mins if it were free to use. It’s not safe, and the change isn’t making it any safer, but the healing out of it is way higher than a 45s CD unless the only CD you’ve seen is VW Mindbender which is better than like any CD in the game.
I’m fairly certain this is going to pan out to not be true in M+. It’s still very much not great in raid, yeah. But they’re about to be very good in M+. Hell, Oracle is getting that contrition rolled into penance on offensive penance cast now, rolled into penance healing and proccing DA which is now 30 instead of 5%. Their HPS is gonna be way better than it is now.
I think PvP is definitely a concern though.
3 Likes
I’ve played priest since WOW came out and Disc 97% of that time. I’ve healed mythic raids, high keys and been over 3k in arena about 9 times. I can say without a shadow of a doubt these changes are complete 
and anyone else that says they aren’t is a blizzard brown noser, copeing or using some other form of logic to convince themselves this will be good.
If I lived in America I’d be bull-horning Blizzard HQ.
4 Likes
Seems like you’re a very very competitive player and are looking at things from a numbers/tuning perspective more than from anything else.
At face value these changes seem like garbage to some, while to many like myself, we hate CDs the most in this game and wish they would just be pruned down entirely from every spec except for 1 CD. Wrath of the Lich King had it best at 1 CD per spec and then the rest of the power lied in your baseline abilities and toolkit, which was especially the case in PvP where you had everyone doing more sustained damage with some burst to help push down player health.
Nonetheless I think pruning CDs is a right move, but I also don’t play competitively one bit, I don’t care about numbers, I don’t do mega high end content where the numbers nonsense matters. Again, all of that comes down to tuning.
What if they reduced the CD on PW:S by 60% and buffed the shield’s power by 60% to compensate for there being no Rapture?
Not to mention you still do have Rapture. It’s in the form of using PW:S and then being Oracle and using Premonition to get off 3 more PW:S and then 1 additional PW:S right after so you can easily clear 4-5 PW:S casts just like before.
To also add to it Idk why people love bringing up numbers nonsense. That’s a tuning issue, not a gameplay issue. It turns into a gameplay issue later on in mega high keys, but once more it’s tuning moreso than anything else.
Also, Disco Priests is one of the weird specs because every healer does regular healing and then does DPS if they want to. I hate healers doing any DPS at all because, to me, you didn’t pick that role to do damage. I don’t care if the high end content forces that out of you or not, they could just as easily make it so it’s not required a single bit, and it would be better overall for the game.
Healer role is a healer role, and while most people consider them a support role the fact is it isn’t an actual support role, it’s a healer role. There’s a difference. You can look at other games who have support roles and healer roles, together, and see the difference.
Discipline Priests utilize a mostly damage dealing kit to heal, which not even that’s unique anymore seeing as how every other healer has a way to deal damage that heals, too. It’s just so backwards to what an actual healer is meant to be, and yes, meant to be.
It’s just getting to the point of you might as well not even make healer’s heal and just consider them a 4th DPS, which is very stupid. They aren’t DPS.
1 Like
Can do the same thing with Premonition of Clairvoyance too!
Insight will give 4 PW shield resets in a row.
Clairvoyance will give another 4 in a row ( if used separate from insight after your PW shield is back up ).
Combined ( meaning you hit premonition 2x ) you can get 7 PW:Shields off in a row if needed.
So Oracle doesn’t really lose the ability to mass PW:shield, plus it sounds like Evang is getting a pretty beefy heal attached to it. Inner focus divine and eternal barrier all sound like they will be really good for Oracle too. The new oracle hero talent that shoots even MORE penance bolts will be interesting tbh xD
I am more sad Train of Thought and Heaven’s Wrath are being deleted. Heaven’s Wrath made Uppies’ 4 min CD more bearable. Hopefully they change it to 3 mins. Luminous Barrier should probably have 2 charges or be given a larger buff in 5 mans but a “reduced absorb effect beyond 5 targets” modifier.
Decent changes for Oracle I think. As someone who enjoyed rolling disc for the first time in like 12+ years I am excited.
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Preach, these bozos have no clue
2 Likes
I understand why people say druids have the worst, but I can’t say I subscribe to the idea that pathing through very powerful utility skills that you may not necessarily need for X content is a problem when the alternative is that you are forced to path through utility skills that have almost zero application in any content.
I’m never going to be sympathetic to the argument that druids have it worse because they don’t want to path through Ursol’s Vortex/Mass Entanglement, Soothe, or Cyclone when the alternative is being forced to path trough Holy Nova, Void Tendrils, Unwavering Will, Cauterizing Shadows, or Tithe Evasion.
1 Like
This is a fair point, buuuut…
How many cooldowns require you to dedicate 7.5 seconds to casting them and doing nothing else? Most cooldowns you press, they do their thing in a global or two, and then you continue doing other supplemental healing or use another cooldown. With uppies? You press it and dedicate the next 7.5 seconds to blasting Penance until you die or the mechanic is healed. If it did its whole effect in a global then, yeah, it would be absolutely busted for the value it provides.
But it doesn’t. No other cooldown requires 7.5 seconds of time and prevents the healer from performing other actions while it does its job.
Could be. Giving you double the theoretical value from every Penance cast for free is certainly an interesting way of trying to move away from Premonition as the selling point for the talent tree, and I’m all for Premonition being thrown in the trash, but I’m skeptical that getting super Penance is really going to do the trick when so much of Penance’s value comes from Dark Reprimand, Shadow Covenant, and Weal and Woe Void Blast.
I could be wrong - generally I hope that I’m wrong - and I would love to see Penance be really strong for discipline. But I really, really hate Premonition, and I really, really don’t want to play oracle as long as Premonition exists.
2 Likes
My concern is actually that whenever penance is strong they like to nerf it.
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Weird. For me it’s 1.1 sec cast and 4.9 seconds to channel @ like 22% haste. 1.1 + 4.5 if I PW shield myself first for the Borrowed Time buff. I think Uppies should be instant cast though.
My monks ramp for/with yu’lon takes about the same time.
Combined with Oracle’s Piety it’s still a pretty significant cooldown imo.
Kinda sad heaven"s wrath is going away. Hopefully they can bake some more power into Uppies if they keeo the 4 min CD, or reduce it to 3 min.
What our patch notes should look like.
- Mingames damage increased 300% now undispellable.
- Chastise (stun) is now baseline for Holy Priest & Discipline Priest
- Inner light & Shadow Deleted and made baseline in PVP
- Door of Shadows is now a Priest spell with 1 min 20 Second CD X2 Charges.
What we got:
- Rapture Removed.
- Insignificant and unwanted compensation.
3 Likes
Fixed that for ya. 
3 Likes
The biggest difference between Disc and Holy is Disc’s rotation just flat out feels more busy because you have to prio every second of your existence to spamming Smite. If you aren’t mashing that key your healing/damage output drops. Even at +26% haste Disc just feels like it’s so slow to reset GCDs.
Holy has more room to breath and I can sit near melee range and help with CCs because most of my AOE damage is just bursted out in the first couple seconds of the pull.
In regards to Rapture: it was just flat out overtuned. Why? I can drop a 1.5-2mil absorb shield on the entire group and mitigate most of a bosses mechanic. Even without Rapture Disc can pre-PWS most of the group before the AOE damage comes out. No other healers ingame have this kind of ability and it becomes a balancing nightmare for the devs to tune high key content.
This whole season has been just a 1-2 healer meta with Resto Shaman/Disc being 90%+ of the healers represented on +12s and higher. Once you’re up to +18s 95% of the healers are Disc.
I said same about spirit shell . I feel its really confusing being disc priest. At least reduce renew mana , which is only way I am gonna spread atonement.
I will have to say this rapture was really good with raid bosses having big tank mechanic. I do play oracle priest. So I can use up to 8 shield at a time.
Now its gone, I have to depend on other talents like barrier and The talent that reduces cooldown of pw shield is also gone.
Please give halo atonement more healing powers and spreading powers like pw radiance. I am not taking the ultimate penance talent , since I always die when I end the cast.
Currently my new ring is doing more healing for me then my luminous barrier - luminous barrier should heal before applying shields and treated as reflective prism .
Buff on pw shield is fine, how about increase damage of reflective prism to 20 % . Oracle dps is to low comparing .
2 Likes
Yes I do. Make my PW: Shields actually absorb damage again baseline instead of being a glorified Atonement spreading ability. Rapture inherently keeps the baseline power of PW: Shield down or else it would be disgustingly broken.
Modifying spells like Rapture can be silent killers. I’m excited to see how the spec feels without it. The spell was spammy and not even that good of gameplay anyway.
1 Like
imo LB should have 2 charges or be buffed more than the 20% that is coming next season. It barely covers a tick of aoe damage in m+ and in raids it’s pretty much just meter padding. It could also apply atonement on 10-20 people but meh.
Could also just increase the radius of PWBarrier by 10-15 yards and Id be happy.
3 Likes
Feels like booty on ptr
1 Like