So now is the time that we all make it super clear to bliz,
2H frost needs:
Or Blizz could make 2 handed runeforges that combine 2 different 1 handed ones in combination, like RI and Fallen Crusader could be combined into Frozen Crusader which has both effects, and again, make it 2 hand only. Also make 1 handed runeforges unique so players canât double up on effects.
As for the KM proc thing, I fully agree that Blizz will have to do something to that to equalize it between 2 hand and DW.
Though I wouldnât mind seeing RI be baked into Frost as a passive and Fallen Crusader baked into veteran of the third war for all DKs.
something you claim as true, thus, you should have a source for that.
I already give the lore source to the other guy who left the thread, go back and read then, or, when you give me a source, i quote mines here again
you are talking about something who donât exist, without profs, like you work at blizzard
the situation, its not a valid question and you are doing on purpose, shifting goals, deflecting, all the same thing you ever do with 2H, you never change
you good people want to feed this troll and complain about her hijacking every single one of these threads. You know you have the choice to ignore and discuss amongst yourselves, right? I donât think Iâve seen so much immaturity in a class forum before. Okay, maybe Rogues and Warlocks, historically speaking.
Yep⌠You did it. You got 2H frost back.
But thatâs all you got in Shadowlands. DKâs are probably the one class thatâs undergoing the least amount of changes. All the effort for the class went into re-designing one spec to work with a different weapon style⌠Oh⌠And a ghoul.
Congratulations. You got what you asked for. And nothing else.
Well thatâs just an outright lie.
Is it though? Thereâs not a whole lot more. DKâs are admittedly one of the classes that need the least changed with it. It plays pretty well as it is. However, adding AMZ, and a ghoul arenât game breaking changes like re-vamping the way Balance Druids workâŚ
It just seems like all the effort that developers put toward the class was put into giving frost 2H capability back.
New runes (first new ones in what, a decade?), new talents, unpruned abilities, new interactions with old abilities, but sure, I guess it was just 2h Frost being re-enabled.
So why is it a problem that we ââonlyââ got 2h then? If the base is solid why is it a negative that we didnât get completely revamped like Balance?
If anything, itâs a good thing we didnât get completely reworked. Having to relearn your class/spec every expansion benefits no-one.
They will tweak some talents around to accommodate 2 hand builds, itâs just common sense at this point. Maybe if they are lucky BoS will be scrapped.
New runes that you wonât be using. Are you really going to give up fallen crusader? Lets be real here. Yes, theyâre there, but theyâre not going to be viable.
They adjusted a few talents. I wouldnât say thatâs game breaking. I wouldnât say adjusting a few talents is expansion worthy change. Thatâs minor patch worthy. They even brought back Lichborne as a talent instead of baseline. Itâs Blizz doing the same old thing. Giving you old stuff you used to have as a choice in the talents.
Un-pruned abilities⌠Like the Presences that people have been asking for, right? Like Hungering Cold which is an ability Iâve seen people asking for. The ability to bring yourself back to life as a Ghoul (forget the ability name) just in a less OP way.
These are all things that DK players have been asking for for years, and not one of them shows up in the Alpha.
The reason itâs a bad thing DKâs are only getting a small handful of things in the expansion is because thereâs nothing else. Theyâre not offering a new row of talents. Theyâre not offering a new set of abilities as you level up. (aside from covenants, which everyone is getting.) The DK attraction to Shadowlands is â2H frost is back!â While every other classâ attraction is âYou get all the abilities youâve wanted back!â.
Itâs far, far too early for such claims. We have no idea what iterations the runes are going to go through.
Iâm certainly interested in toying around with a couple though. Iâve never been one to min-max.
Uh⌠what? Lichborne is becoming baseline though? In fact nothing we previously had is being brought back as a talent. Unholy and Blood actually got talents made baseline.
Just so youâre aware of the others.
All Spec Baseline - Death and Decay, Anti-Magic Zone, Lichborne, Raise Dead, Chains of Ice
Iâd like presences back, but to be honest they donât really have a place. Even then, the one people primarily want back is Unholy for the on-demand movement speed. Itâs not a uniformly desired thing to see presences return.
Hungering Cold fills the same role as Blinding Sleet while being significantly more powerful. HC has virtually no chance of coming back as it was, and I really donât recall anyone ever passionately wanting it back.
I think youâre referring to Shadow of Death, which existed from 3.0 to 3.1. I honestly donât even remember how good that was or not, but the speedy removal makes me think it was broken is some form. Cool ability though.
Iâm sorry but thatâs just not a good reason. You said it yourself that DKs âplay well as isâ, so why are you so bothered that the changes arenât âgame breakingâ when the specs are fine?
but we are getting abilities we wanted back, clearly just ones you have no interest in for some reason. No class is getting 100% of what they wanted back.
Ok, youâre right. Iâm not interested in having a weapon enchant be the leading force behind the changes to the class in the expansion. New runes that I doubt will be overly useful compared to the ones we currently have in the game, arenât exciting to me.
I head that Lichborne was coming back as a base talent from two different sources. If thatâs incorrect information then I apologize for spreading it. Thatâs on me for not checking my resources better. (Heard it from two Youtubers who are in the Alpha. Both of which I donât watch, but had since clicked on a few of their videos since the Alpha was out just to get a taste of whatâs coming. âSign of kilanyâ I think was one of them, and the other was a âbig boyâ bald English fella." Either way, both of them had a bunch of subscribers and seemed to know what they were talking about.)
However, you canât say that getting Chains of Ice, and DnD back for all specs is a great change. All specs should have a slow. Chains of Ice should never have been removed from the other specs in the first place. Thatâs just Blizz correcting a mistake they made years ago.
As for DnD, when are you going to use it as Frost? It has no synergy with your abilities, your mastery, and it will take up a rune to cast, which you could be using to cast Obliterate. Itâs not a viable spell to get back. The only reason theyâre bringing it back is because some people feel it lends to the DK theme. Same thing with Raise Dead. I donât really want to play a pet class. If I did; and still wanted to play a DK; I would have played Unholy. I donât want bad pet AI ruining my game play.
Itâs the same thing with DnD. Some people donât feel like a Death Knight if theyâre not casting Necromancy abilities. With frost not having any (any real visual ones. Obviously they have a few in theme (control dead, Wraith walk EctâŚ) they donât feel like the necromancer they should be.
Why is that a bad thing? Why is wanting to switch between being more tanky, more bursty, or faster at will a bad thing? Bring back presences. They were really fun and a great way to distinguish the DK from other âstanceâ classes like Warriors and Pallies.
Yep. It was only in the game for a few months. It was extremely broken, because Blizz way over tuned it back in a time when they felt that their âhero classâ should be more powerful than the other classes. That was Blizz mentality at the time. The Death Knight was build and simply meant to be better.
Since then theyâve abandoned that notion and all classes are (in theory) meant to be equal. (slight balance issues aside) So why not go back to the ability people loved, and bring it back? This time take the time to do it properly.
With adding things like weapon enchants, and abilities that are already still in the game on other specs back into all three specs, it sure seems like they had the time and resources they could have spent on working on making old abilities work in the new age.
I can really only think of a use in PvP, for breaking stealth, stopping food/water, or spinning flags. For PvE as of now Iâm really not sure where itâs going to end up in rotation for Frost, if at all.
The reason they brought it back, at least the reason that seems most likely, is because Deathâs Due (night fae ability) replaces it and acts basically the same.
I agree with basically everything you said otherwise. Though I donât see much of a place for presences, SoD, or any of the other removed abilities I wouldnât be against them coming back.
More choice is always a good thing IMO.
i hope they balance stuff for 2h so they dont remove it again
the str part of SoD should have been removed but blizz being blizz just removed sod entirely.
The source is the gameplay. I donât know how many times I needs to be explained to you. Artifacts were the only weapons that expansion, we have anywhere between 2-4 specs depending on the class, they cannot limit you to only playing one spec so all have to be open for you. Not to mention that when you are at the sword in Azeroth only 1 weapon is drained and not all of them if you want to point at quests saying that itâs lore that the leader of their respective order. Things have been done for the sake of gameplay.
So, again, if they only allowed you to get 1 weapon then you would be locked out of the other specs. The story is often not like the game. Just like not all paladins actually have The Ashbringer, not all Death Knights have Apocalypse in lore. Or are you saying that they do because they all got a quest to get a unique weapon. Itâs why a lot of people didnât like this system and still donât.
You donât have a source, and you canât understand that gameplay always trumps lore, otherwise at times the game would be unplayable.
Who is talking about a who? Gameplay is a what. This is like you wanting a source for the sky being blue yet itâs self evident just by looking at the sky. Itâs a gameplay thing, no matter how much you want to ignore it does not mean that it wasnât done for gameplay reasons because you want some kind of source like blizzard having to hold everyoneâs hand explaining the obvious.
How is that not a valid question? Iâm not distorting anything lol. Oh and you mean how I was right about 2h that the exact situation that 2h is in would happen if weapon restrictions are lifted? I was wrong about that huh? Just like I said 2h wouldnât come back even though that was never said either.
Where is this distortion? The shifting of the goals? The only one shifting anything is you. How specs work, and the artifact system, in terms of gameplay you have to allow all players to get all the weapons or else you cannot play your class. Again, if they only allowed you to get one weapon how would you play the other specs in your class? The answer is you couldnât, therefore itâs a gameplay based decision.
Chains of Ice, Death and Decay and Raise dead were all baseline abilities for the longest time. Itâs nothing to really bat an eyelash at, itâs just what we had.
Lichborne and AMZ were both talents, one you couldnât get originally unless you were unholy because it was so far down in that tree.
Even one of the runeforges isnât new and itâs just something coming back. Some are there to promote chain pulling or a leveling runeforge, or a runeforge that might be good in very specific fights that have a regular stream of adds where you can take advantage of it. Otherwise these things arenât looking to be that great which a return to fallen for all specs is looking likely. They would have to severely nerf it because 15% str, and being able to pair other cooldowns with it, is why itâs so strong. Razorice is another one, 15% increase in frost damage is just really strong, even more so now that obliterate km procs are apparently entirely frost damage.
It really depends on the release date of shadowlands. Right now there are 3 areas that have been tested. Bastion, Ravendreth, and Torghast. That leaves 2 more zones before beta testing most likely and those 3 areas went by pretty quick. Looks like alpha might be pretty short. Anything is open to change until the last day of beta.
I just look at azerite gear as a perfect example of Blizzard sitting on their hands until the very last minute.
It amazes me that someone can create a post about being happy, and a portion of the WoW community is like âNO!! Thatâs not allowed!â
No one said that. If you are happy at swinging a 2h around while being behind, by all means do you.
itâs likely a number of class changes to dks will come in the build that enables torghast for dks. right now only mages, warlocks, priests, and demon hunters can enter the zone. With all of the class based anima powers involved itâs bound to include a number of changes.
im 50/50 on that but i sure hope thats the case