<=== This guy
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Really? Tell that to Syeg, who for some reason doesnt even though it would help others to take 2h more seriously.
And if that is your stance then you shouldnt be in any beta or alpha testing. The playerbase is really good at solving this stuff. In fact I have on multiple occasions presented a way to bring both weapon sets to a point where it really is use what weapon set is higher ilvl.
Wait and see is why Azerite gear was a laughing stock when BFA was release, wait and see why the early artifact system was a pretty bad. Wait and see is not a good mindset when Blizzard is working behind the wheel. They say one thing, and the next thing you know its not there.
Its actually a very likely possibility that they say 2h will be in shadowlands and then its nowhere. Happened to the 4 hours of cut scenes that was supposed to be in Warcraft 3 Reforged.
no its not, its because they ignored feedback in the alpha/beta
before we could not possible said if it was good or bad. Bad, bad analogy.
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There wasnt much if any azerite testing. It was released a week before launch. A lot of people were using the âwait and seeâ âits not finished yetâ âits only betaâ argument.
Again, your logic is just flawed. Why were you complaining about 2h before alpha was even out? See, it can be just as easily turned around on you. You can complain about something you want, but once someone brings up something that you dont care about then âshut up its not alpha yet, wait and seeâ. So is what you care about important while other peoples concerns just dont matter? Guess what either way you answer that, its not good for you.
Good, you guys can move on. You have nothing else to contribute by admission.
thats completely different
you canât say something is bad or not without it actually being a thing.
When they announced Azerite gear, you could not say if it was good or bad, you had to way and see in the alpha/beta. We waited, and we saw, and it was bad, and we complained about. totally different.
you are complaining, about something is not out yet to see if is bad or not, you are working on assumptions
You are using an false analogy, your entire logic is flawed.
Again, you canât say something is bad if the thing is not even there yet to be bad or not.
Like you just canât say shadowlands will be a bad or good expansion.
Like many other things.
But sure, keep being a doomsayer with literally no info despite â2H will returnâ it amuses me. 
Alpha is going life right now and dataminers are doing their job
last i have look, this thread is not a feedback thread, what about you start one?
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Sure you could. It was easy and people did it. Just like people are speaking their concerns about the Covenant system. They didnt just say âthere will be this thing called a Covenant systemâ and no other information was released. It was told that there would be abilities linked to those Covenants, and to change a Covenant it would be a daunting task, like the Aldor and Scryers.
Just like the the Azerite system, we knew how it was going to work. They said that you would have to get AP, and that AP would unlock rings and so on. People were then saying if we get a new piece do we have to grind out more ap to be able to use it, or will it just be unlocked. See using their brain to think of possible outcomes to voice their concern.
No false analogies here.
Yes, you can if there is enough information about that thing. Why is that so hard for you to understand. There is enough information out right now about 2h being brought back. Nothing else has changed at this point in time, so things would have to change for things to be even somewhat balanced. Why are you so against it? It would help you even if you dont want it.
blizzard: Hey guys there will be a new feature called Azerite gear"
players: according to Kelliste: âit will be bad!1!1!1â
we actually had a preview of then, so we could indeed speak about then
again, bad logic, false analogy, pass on
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Yes, that is exactly what I said. Azerite gear was announced and people said it was bad. Its not like they showed visuals and explained it like they did with the Covenant system.
And we also had a preview of Azerite gear, they were just so slow at getting it out and tested that when it was tested the game was being released. Which is another reason why people were complaining that Blizzard doesnt communicate.
So you were caught in yet ANOTHER lie. How many more are you going to have? And why are you ignoring a lot of what I have asked? Is it because you are afraid to answer it because it makes you look bad, not like all the lies actually help you in the first place.
and there is the diference, and why your analogy sucks, he donât have a preview of 2H frost yet to complain like the others 
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So we dont have enough information at all? Thats another lie. We know that weapon restrictions have been lifted, so the statement âif more isnt done then 2h is going to be behind due to this, this and thisâ is a valid and logically sound statement and argument.
lets see what i said:
literally the only thing we have is â2hâ will come back
for you this is preview enough to start your doomsayer and say its bad, alright keep going, but to say is the same that azerite gear, that we indeed had a preview of how it work and played its disingenuous
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Yes, it is.
Is the statement âif nothing else is done then 2h will stay behindâ false? We know how Frost works now, we can take what Blizzard has said that no major changes to the specs, we can apply 2h to the model we have. We have more than enough information to go off of.
I still dont understand why you are having an argument. Is it just because you dont like me? If thats the case you are just trolling, and deserving of a trolling report.
Itâs soloable up to Gulâdan, even he should be soloable but I canât get past him. You can also do mythic EN and get some of the pieces.
Gotta look good for when 2h comes back, after all.
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Iâm not in the anti 2h camp, however I like Kelliste brought up the damage issue. I lived and played through a point where Blizzard did the exact same thing that youâre saying they wonât do. They did something very similar with Frost at the start of the expac when they ignored feedback about the rune recharge system and a few other things.
OK, again not anti 2h frost, Iâm thrilled about it actually because itâs a return to the old style wow which I loved for its freedom of agency. However, MotFW was in game and 2h was still the worse dps option. There will be complaints about this no doubt, and again while Iâm thrilled I want an option that works just as good as Frost/Unholy do (all 3 better than now-BFA) so that I can enjoy all 3 as I wish.
Thatâs where it starts; 2h Frost scaled worse than any other dps spec so that difference becomes much larger in the last tier of an expac. Iâd suggest different modifiers on the abilities depending on weapon used and a different mastery for 2h Frost. Preferably something that directly affects oblit and fs.
Or they could just address the issues between the 2. DW gets and extra runeforge, easy solution for that, create a 2h runeforge exclusive to frost that combines Fallen Crusader and Razorice. Make killing machine only proc off the main hand weapon and increase the base chance to bring both 2h and DW up to the same point (though 1h will attack faster than 2h its close enough) and that is actually a nerf to DW, and then make it so that Obliterate and Frost Strike are 1 hit for DW instead of 2 seperate hits causing half crits.
Bam, its balanced. No need for this to have different modifiers so if there needs to be a change to an ability then you have to change the modifier as well which could result in changing another ability to compensate and you get a mess.
In this case if you buff obliterate you buff obliterate. Since the damage is almost or close to identical due to how ability damage is calculated, there is no other balancing that you need to do.
This is the best possible course of action because it actually addresses why DW is better.
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Well Kelliste, I sure hope you do get into alpha or beta, because you sure seem to think you know a lot⌠
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What is easiest is not always best, and youâre opening the door for Unholy DKâs to start asking for a split shadow/Fallen crusader.
The reason I say different mods, which can be messier I agree is to avoid a spec situation where youâre playing the same thing but with different weapons. 2h felt different than dw back in the day, and that was good. The numerical difference between the two was not.
Your solutions for KM are simple and elegant, and those would solve that issue. I donât like the amount of homogenization that comes in the rest of your ideas though. Different mods would let the different play styles show through, big meaty hits with 2h, faster but smaller hits with dw.
Of course Iâm going use this discussion to shoe horn in the idea that all of our abilities (dots, Remorseless, ghouls/magus/gargoyle,death and decay) should scale better with haste than they do and with haste if they donât. Looking at our DOTS and RW and DnD in the not affected area.
I also like the idea that 2h focus more on Obliterate/FS, but that model didnât work out so well. Another reason I suggested the different mastery, to help define that 2h play style and make it more distinct. In reality they could just passively bake in Razor Ice value into base mastery 2h Frost gets on Shadow lands launch and it would do the same thing as a split rune.
Iâm sort of excited to see where the development team goes with this.
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Why would Unholy need a split? They dont have another weapon set they are competing with. If it was really an issue they would have been asking for it since Wrath.
2h felt different in MoP and WoD when the spec was split since it was Blizzards idea that they should feel like their own spec. You also run the risk of completely removing aspects of the spec, like what happened in WoD, and partially MoP with masterfrost and mastersimple builds which larely ignored Obliterate and never got Rime procs.
If you want to play frost, play frost, it does not need to be split as long as its a fun spec. Use the weapon you want, doesnt matter, everyone is happy.
DW players also liked the playstyle prior to the MoP/WoD split. Destro doesnt change in how it plays when you get a 1h offhand vs staff, nor do any of the other casters.
Make a fun spec, allow people to choose what they want, profit.
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