Water Strider Discussion

You have never had to use your water-strider as your main mount. There have been potions that allow water walking in the game for a very long time.

Keep in mind that they will probably keep 3 items, eliminating items as they add something. I would put my money on the first one to go being water-walking as they have wanted to get rid of it for a long time.

Keep in mind that they are implementing this system at the same time that Pathfinder II comes out. This means that all of those items will only be used for a couple of weeks (depending on how rough they make getting Pathfinder rep).

Why do you suppose they did this?
Does it actually make any sense to add those particular items at this time in the game?

These are things you should think about because at some point you may be wishing you still had that old water-striderā€™s water walking ability.

For your enjoymentā€¦ Me and my strider enjoying a passing storm.

Imgur

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Banned again, with no reason given, yay. No posts deleted, just ā€˜on holdā€™. I give up. Obviously Iā€™m too dangerously subversive to be allowed to think something is dumbā€¦

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First lets provide precision to this statement and see if you can still apply the verb you used in the context of the sentence in which it was used:

work

/wərk/

noun

  1. Activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

ā€œHe was tired after a dayā€™s work in the fieldsā€

synonyms: labor, toil, exertion, effort, slog, drudgery, the sweat of oneā€™s brow;
industry; service;informal grind, sweat, donkey work, spadework, elbow grease; informal graft, (word edited from definition because it is also used as a gender identity slur);informal yakka; archaic travail, moil

  1. A task or tasks to be undertaken; something a person or thing has to do.
    ā€œthey made sure the work was progressing smoothlyā€

synonyms: tasks, jobs, duties, assignments, commissions, projects; chores ā€œhavenā€™t you got any work to do?ā€

verb

  1. Be engaged in physical or mental activity in order to achieve a purpose or result, especially (but not exclusively) in oneā€™s job; do work.
    ā€œan engineer who had been working on a design for a more efficient wingā€

synonyms: toil, labor, exert oneself, slave (away), plod away; work oneā€™s fingers to the bone, work like a Trojan/dog, work day and night, keep at it, keep oneā€™s nose to the grindstone;
informal slog (away), beaver away, plug away, peg away, put oneā€™s back into something, work oneā€™s guts out, work oneā€™s socks off, knock oneself out, sweat blood, kill oneself; informal graft, (word edited from definition because it is also used as a gender identity slur); informal bullock;
vulgar synonyms edited; archaic drudge, travail, moil

ā€œstaff worked late into the night to make the necessary repairsā€

  1. (of a machine or system) Operate or function, especially properly or effectively.
    ā€œhis cell phone doesnā€™t work unless he goes to a high pointā€

synonyms: function, go, run, operate, perform; be in working order; informal behave

ā€œDinoā€™s car was now working perfectlyā€

  1. intransitive verb: To perform work or fulfill duties regularly for wages or salary
    He works in publishing.

Then of course there is the definition of work that is classified as the most general case statement found in Physics:

Work is defined as a force causing the movementā€”or displacementā€”of an object. In the case of a constant force, work is the scalar product of the force acting on an object and the displacement caused by that force. Though both force and displacement are vector quantities, work has no direction due to the nature of a scalar product (or dot product) in vector mathematics. This definition is consistent with the proper definition because a constant force integrates to merely the product of the force and distance.

Quite a few different definitions, however the context of your sentence gives us a handle on which to gain a philosophical advantage. In the case of your sentence the plain language reading of it by induction lends itself to the intransitive verb definition 3. A task for which you get paid a salary or wage. And your hypothesis is that the target of your argument is not an employee or contractor for the company and therefore is not being paid therefore no work could have been done. My response is to call b.s. As we see from the various other definitions including the physics definition work is not necessarily something for which one must be paid in coin of the realm. One may be paid in enjoyment for pertinent example:

He ground out the work of gaining reputation with the faction for the pure enjoyment and the knowledge that he would be rewarded greatly by the option to purchase an azure water strider at the end of his toil and soon would be able to stride across the waves as a part of his reward.

So while your definition of the word work might be applied, the other definitions of the word (which cannot be ignored here for the simple fact that the definition you chose to hang the context on is a subset of a more general use case) are still attached and serve to negate the context as the more general use cases would be the more acceptable interpretations.

Even if we rely solely on your own context the person who chose to grind out the reputation to get the azure water strider was paid for his efforts. He was paid in enjoyment thus negating the context of your sentence as there was an exchange of payment for effort.

To then go back and remove or modify the features of the water strider because reasons, in any other context would be considered an impermissible conversion for which remedy in law would be available.

Yes the person who attained the reputation worked for it. They were then compensated for that work with a reward. That reward is payment. To modify the payment in a manner that decreases the value of that payment is one element of conversion. The other three elements (the plaintiff having the right to use as explicitly stated in the contract, the intent of the defendant to devalue the property in question being clear and the resulting damages incurred) being met unequivocally, by implementing this feature in this upcoming patch the tort of conversion will be complete and would under normal circumstances bring liability to the defendants (Blizzard Entertainment, ATVI, et al). The only thing preventing it from being an actual liability for Blizzard is that it has not been tried.

Now, I would say that while going after Blizzard Entertainment in such a fashion might be met with both skepticism and ridicule, with some pointing to the EULA and ToS. Morally and Ethically Blizzards stated intent is not different from any other company that might try the same shenanigans in the real world and were the world a just and fair place (it is not) Blizzard could be sued for this tort as might any other company who has perpetrated it in the past such as:

Love v. U.S. (1972)

LA. State Bar Association v. Hinrichs

IN RE: Thebus

Francis v Farnham Oregon Supreme Court (1982). Interestingly enough this case cites the Oregon Supreme Courtā€™s definition of the tort of Conversion from Mustola. (Mustola v. Toddy 1969) Showing that the adverb intentionally modifies the word committed which verb refers to the tort action not the damage.

In this case Blizzard Entertainment has expressed an intent to commit conversion and if it goes forward with this intention will have intentionally or not caused damages to the class of people who ā€œownā€ Azure Water Striders.

We have established that the actions required to be performed to obtain the Azure Water Strider constitute work. As a result of that the promised reward was a mount that would walk on surfaces identifiable as ā€˜waterā€™ in the game. We have established that Blizzard Entertainment ceded the right to use the Water Strider once the requirements were met to obtain the Water Strider. We have established that Blizzard Entertainment Intends to modify in a manner that would render the Water Strider unusable for the purpose to which it was intended. We have also established that damages will occur that will substantially devalue the Water Strider to the class of people who have earned the right to use the Water Strider. All four elements of Conversion have been met. Irrespective of the fact that it is pixels on a screen we can reject the argument that no work has been performed based on plain language reading of the definition of the word work, therefore ethically and morally a conversion is imminent and under other circumstance any such company that attempted what Blizzard is attempting would see an injunction while the case moved forward and at the end of the day it is likely that Blizzard Entertainment would be forced to compensate for conversion or would have to reverse the conversion as they would decidedly lose on the merits of the case.

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What problem? There is no problem except a perceived one that was created in Ionā€™s mind like flight. And just like flight, some players jump on the Dev bandwagon just to agree and feel they are finally right about something.

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Right. But as well all know maybe 0.5% of players or likely even less, actually take the time to read those encyclopedia sets they call the EULA.
I doubt many of us have even read the CoC for this forum.

That said, there is still an expectation of integrity and honesty when anything is purchased or agreed upon.
No one expects when the fulfill their end of what is asked, even if its not directly dealt with in any written agreement, that the other party is going to actually use some little detail in that agreement to perpetually pick at the relationship by taken away things that are worked for and earned.

Im quite sure that even though it IS technically allowed by the EULA, that even if we were signing a contract, say for a years service, that with the ongoing abuses such asā€¦againā€¦doing the ADVERTISED work for X in the game, then having the other party continually doing stuff like theyve done with things such as Master loot and especially the striders situationā€¦that I have full faith I could end up getting out of that contract in a court of law.
I signed my lease where I live, but my states laws supersede anything that my landlord puts in that lease.

Im quite sure that even though Im just keeping my one account open and letting the other lapseā€¦and Im also vowed not to give this company another dime ever again beyond that $15 sub fee a monthā€¦that eventually even wanting to keep the one account open solely for playing when my nephew is on, that Ion will pull something so far beyond unacceptable that Iā€™ll end up deleting the game off my PC entirely and never looking back.
He seems bent on causing the game to fail in a way I dont think I have ever seen with any game company.
I mean, even the games Ive watched implode over the many years Ive played video games always seemed to be doing their best to make paying customers happy. They just didnt have the talent or something, and so they failed anyway.

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yeah, thats the part thats nauseating.
This just feels very cheap.
I meanā€¦IF they had added something for any mount to walk temporarily in our toy collection, I think I could get past it.
Why didnt they just a stupid toy that does the same stupid thing that these goofy boots do. They could have called it the exact same thing.
And then everyone who wanted all of their mountsā€¦or any of themā€¦to walk on water could have applied the stupid toy to it and NOT have screwed with my strider I worked for.

The raft is a toy. It floats for 10 minutes.
TADAAA!
There ya go Blizzard.
Do that with a toy for mounts. Problem solved.
Nope.

And dont think this is for OUR benefit.
NOthing they do is EVER for OUR benefit.
There is something in the works for this equipment crap that is to THEIR advantage. Something to drag out game play, guaranteed.
Just watch and see.

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I was thinking either

A - we can equip armor, saddles, reigns, wraps, etcā€¦on our mounts. Different looks, different styles to collect. For example, go to mount hyjal raid and do something to equip your mount so she has a fire trail as she moves.

B - from what Iā€™ve read there are only 3 options to equip our mounts (parachute, water walking and canā€™t be dazed). Add dozens + more to collect over time even if they arenā€™t nearly as useful. For example, your mount jumps slightly higher, swims slightly faster, etcā€¦

Oh god no. Not unless they code in a speed selector. Itā€™s already hard enough to travel as a group (RP, mind you, so staying together matters), what with the various class boosts. :stuck_out_tongue:

Maybe there were items I could use in game but why would I use those? Iā€™m assuming Iā€™d have to spend money at AH to get them or level alchemy?. Not really something Iā€™d do when I can just use my water strider. Iā€™m a casual player so money isnā€™t something I spend when I donā€™t have to.

I see no reason why Blizzard would just straight out remove an equipment slot ability. I know, I know, youā€™ll point out dozens other examples of Blizzard removing stuff so it is a possibility but seems like a stretch at this point. Why do you think theyā€™ll just keep 3 items and not just add more items to collect? Would be very strange to have a rotating door of mount slot abilities.

In terms of Pathfinderā€¦Iā€™m not getting Pathfinder right away. Ill get it eventually but right now Iā€™m leveling my hunter. So water walking will still benefit me for a while.

Maybe it is a little strange to add this now but not that crazy. These type of feature have been added in major patches before.

I do remember Blizzard in the past not liking water walking so I am a little worried theyā€™ll think of something to remove that ability but until then Iā€™ll enjoy this new feature and hope they expand on it.

When it comes right down to it, this is a ridiculous ā€˜fixā€™ to a problem that didnā€™t exist.
Think about it. We can use a potion to ww, so if we just did that when we want to cross a river, traverse the shoreline, or jump off a ship and get to shore, we could.
The strider simply makes it convenient, to pop him up, and get that ability so we can have mount instead of running speed.

Theyā€™re breaking the strider, that weā€™ve worked for and some have had for roughly 3 years, because they all of a sudden think that is a problem.

I can not understand their logic in the slightest.
This is ALL reminiscent of the crappy attitude they took when they yanked flying.

The excuse was pathetic, mostly a lie, and the players were all but ignored. Pathfinder was still a fix they reluctantly began, and still to this day probably regret. Evidence the fact that weā€™ve had to wait darn near a year before they ā€œgot aroundā€ to patching it in so we could fly again.
And now with that, they institute another time and gold sink at the same time.

If they really didnā€™t care and wanted to give the players this small convenience, they would have just let the strider be like the golem, and introduce the new equip just like they are now.

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Thatā€™s trueā€¦but Iā€™m sure they could think of creative abilities like parachute for people to find and collect. Or just go with the first option and give us mount cosmetics :smile:

If you donā€™t like them taking water walking from your strider, you have three options.

  1. Avoid water
  2. Swim
  3. Unsub and reduce the surplus population.

Anyone who thinks this isnā€™t the case is crazy. This is about control. Period. Otherwise they simply would have added the item to allow people to water walk and left the Strider alone. They need to completely take away itā€™s ability so they can disable it in future content.

The reason for this is simple. They want to stretch out content so people spend longer getting from point A to point B. Mount equipment will be gated like pathfinder has gated flying.

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Ah yes, The Dickensian approach. Which hopefully enough folk will take advantage of to either:
A) cause a rethink on the parts of the developers or barring this epiphany to
B) cause the executives and investors to reach the conclusion that these particular developers are harming the brand and take appropriate action.

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That seems to be Blizzards standard operating procedures.
God i wish my nephew was playing ESO instead.

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Ahā€¦there it is.
Id bet money on that being right, or close to it.

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Well, Iā€™ve checked out that game, and it looks interesting.

I must admit however, that I am a creature of habit.
I really like this game. In 14 years, moonstriken is like a virtual family memberā€¦a friend. She has petsā€¦pets and animals have been my life and I really like that.
I know this game. I recognize the content, know where I have to go for the most part.
I like the people in my guild, that Iā€™ve hung around with for 4 or so years. (although almost all of them have left now)
I do a lot of complaining about this, but at the end of the day, I really donā€™t want to switch games or unsub. This is the first time Iā€™ve even considered it.

But hey, this must be the year for changes for me. Iā€™m leaving California, where Iā€™m born and raised, for the first time in my life. After all these years, the policies, taxes and ridiculous high cost of living and crowding has finally convinced me itā€™s time to #Calexit.

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Same here.
Two months ago I couldnt have ever imagined myself hating this game like I am right now.
Some here keep asking why we complain and why we dont just leave.
Well, why dont I just get divorced from my wife if we dont agree on something instead of trying to find a way to make it work, if Im going to use that joke logic.

The idea is to let them know that we arent happy so they can figure out something that works better and doesnt keep the tension in the relationship.

I have to say, however, if blizzard were my spouse, Id have dumped it to live free from this crap theyve been pulling recently.
When the provocation becomes this frequentā€¦and the party responsible this callous about itā€¦the relationship is over.

But hey, this must be the year for changes for me. Iā€™m leaving California, where Iā€™m born and raised, for the first time in my life. After all these years, the policies, taxes and ridiculous high cost of living and crowding has finally convinced me itā€™s time to #Calexit.

Awesome!
Kudos to you. Ive read a lot of whats going on out there. Youre right to leave.
Come to Ohio. Weā€™re not entirely communist yet :slight_smile:

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Remember the gbank lag? On higher pop realms, it could literally take you 45 minutes to an hour just clearing out a full gbank. That is just the time spent clicking the items out. How long did it take them to fix it? 18 months. They acknowledged it very early but did nothing.

The developer apologized and rolled back the design.

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