Whether or not the Lightforging was justified, Illidan did owe Xe’ra his life… and he still killed her despite that fact.
The only transformation we saw was Illidan’s green turning to gold, going from Fel to Light, so I wouldn’t call that “radically transforming his body”. He still had his hooves and his wings (though those were Fel mutations, and, theoretically speaking, transforming that would mean reverting his body to its original natural form, hardly a horrible thing).
The Lightforging process, or whatever Xe’ra was attempting to perform is painful and would’ve changed Illidan’s form radically from its regular Fel-infused nature.
Even still, whether it just changed the color of his tattoos or not, doesn’t give her the right to do it without his consent.
‘You owe me your life.’
‘I’m now going to force something you don’t want on you, no matter how much you verbally protest.’
Yeah, I’d probably kill that person too if they were actively doing it in the moment and not stopping.
How was it a radical transformation when it just changes his body from green to gold? What evidence do you have for that?
How was he in pain? He just sounded like he was struggling, not in pain.
After what Illidan did to Akama, splitting Akama’s soul and forcing him to serve on pain of one half consuming the other, I struggle to have any sympathy for Illidan here. I’ve even considered if it could be poetic justice, or similar to Aang taking away Ozai’s firebending in Avatar: The Last Airbender.
A simplistic interpretation that leaves out a lot of facts. Especially since the main thrust of my argument here is, whether she was right or wrong to try and Lightforge Illidan by force, Xe’ra did not deserve to die for it (in your analogy you risk getting arrested for excessive force).
The fact that they’re two entirely different cosmic forces, and every time we’ve seen these two forces interact it’s explosive.
Light magic is canonically painful to fel-infused beings, similar to the undead.
Why do you think the light was the main cosmic force used to fight against the Legion, exactly?
Even still, this is beside the fact. Even if it was just a color swap (which we both know it wasn’t, don’t act dumb) it still doesn’t give Xe’ra any right to do it.
So…
Someone doing wrong unto others somehow makes them lose all right to control their own body?
That doesn’t seem just at all.
That isn’t even poetic justice, that’s just vengeful hate.
Here’s the difference here…
Aang took away Ozai’s firebending because he was using it as an active weapon to incite mass genocide.
No different than striking a sword out of a genocidal soldier’s hand.
Illidan was having his body forcefully transformed as to reforge him into something to Xe’ra’s liking.
We need to actually think of what it’s like to be in that situation, man.
If you’re actively being grasped by someone attempting to do something you don’t want to your body, you’re not going to think logically in that moment.
Maybe Xe’ra didn’t deserve to die, but it wasn’t exactly a decision Illidan sat and thought on before doing it. It was something that happened directly in the moment against his will.
Xe’ra initiated forceful action on him, whatever happens to her in his attempt to struggle is something she did to herself.
While I see where you’re coming from about it being painful, that still doesn’t mean it was a radical transformation of his body. More like a class swap from Demon Hunter to Paladin.
Illidan was not losing all right to control of his body (we know that’s not true, don’t act dumb); after the process he’d still be able to make whatever choice he wanted, including challenging Xe’ra’s decisions (just as Turalyon did after he went through the same process, and it was completed in his case).
And as Illidan used that soul magic to literally force Akama to serve him, Illidan getting his fel replaced with Light while his actions during and afterward are still his own is tame compared to that.
Him being forced into a supernatural procedure after subjecting Akama to a much worse supernatural procedure sounds like poetic justice (then again, since what Akama went through was worse than what Illidan went through).
A better analogy would’ve been cutting off the genocidal soldier’s sword hand. Strike it out of their hand and they can pick it up again, but Ozai wasn’t getting his firebending back.
And Xe’ra’s reason for doing so was a prophecy for the defeat of a universe-destroying demonic army, not personal gain or taste.
While there’s some merit there, and Illidan’s not the best at logical thought, that’s an explanation, not justification.
That’s because she wasn’t doing it out of the “kindness of her heart” being a crystal construct, she probably didn’t have one.
Saving me from a hellish fate just to make me into one of your slaves doesn’t give you entitlement.
There is no parallel here.
Your constant repetition of Illidan’s misdeeds is irrelevant… at least according to X’era herself who chastised the Champions for killing Illidan at the Black Temple and brushed aside all of his prior sins.
Considering that to become a Demon Hunter you need to do certain radical things to your own body (tattoos, infusing with fel, blinding yourself, etc.)
And Lightforging isn’t the same as being a Paladin at all.
It’s like… an actual biological change, something that changes your very DNA.
Yeah, it’s a radical change.
I honestly have no idea how you can even argue that.
Also:
No, but his body is being changed to better fit someone else
Which is wrong, and he deserves to be punished for that.
What you’re asking for is basically the equivalent of cutting off someone’s hand for a crime they committed.
Which, y’know, is wrong.
Eye for an eye leaves everyone blind and all that.
I suppose.
The entire process was largely spiritual, though.
Also, Ozai is a far different character from Illidan.
Illidan isn’t actively waging genocidal war on everyone but himself and his followers, and wasn’t an active threat during Legion.
Also, I’d argue that what Aang did to Ozai is more along the lines of ‘putting him in a spiritual straightjacket,’ which only Aang can take off of him.
Since Aang has the ability to return his bending back to him as well iirc.
It was Xe’ra’s own prophecy.
Who’s to say it’s even true but Xe’ra and those who believe her.
It is justified to fight back in self-defense against someone actively trying to modify your body without consent.
Forcefully.
If that ends up killing the person trying to initiate that forceful action, that’s literally their own fault.
As I said, it’s a high intensity situation, nobody would be thinking logically when acting in self-defense in that situation.
Illidan was being made a Champion of the Light, not a Champion of Xe’ra, and no one said anything about slavery. And I’d say there was kindness, Xe’ra sure wasn’t fighting the Burning Legion or profit or pleasure.
Not sure I’d call tattoos radical, though the other things are.
Lightforging does change the appearance, but apart from that there’s nothing to suggest it changes DNA. Evidence against that theory is the canon fact that the children of those Lightforged are not Lightforged themselves.
That’s still not “losing all right to control over his own body” (and what’s with the emoji?)
“Eye for an eye” originated from Book of Exodus, where it actually meant “the punishment should fit the crime”. That quote was a well-meaning but ignorant twisting of it millennia later by Gandhi.
All three processes we’re discussing are spiritual, even though they have varying amounts of physical interaction.
Illidan was a loose cannon, and opening a giant portal to Argus gave the Legion and Sargeras a better route to Azeroth than the one the used under the Tomb of Sargeras (hence Khadgar’s “What have you done!?” to Illidan after we beat Kil’jaeden).
True, though does Aang ever return his bending back to him?
The fact that Xe’ra had made successful prophecies beforehand.
Depends on the circumstances, which is why self-defense laws also have a part about excessive force.
You’re right. They do not, sadly. Hopefully one day when they see we are spreading the good word and doing the Light’s work… just in a very, insane and somewhat fanatical way.
Scarlet Crusade might get some approval if they drop the racism, fanatical parts of faith, insanity and the “kill everyone who’s not us” parts. To be fair, there was some Dreadlord manipulation going on.
The draft, within the United States and most countries is seen alongside the same lines as Jury Duty.
It’s seen as a required responsibility if you live within that country, a necessary payment akin to something like taxes.
That being said, some can equate it with slavery. But the countries themselves utilize the framework that if you want to live within this country you must also serve it.
My point is that not all forced servitude is wrong or slavery. And what about community service (forcing criminals to do jobs as punishment for their crimes)?
You have a fair position I mostly agree with. The problem is too many people throw around the term “slavery” as an emotionally charged word to shut down their opponents without looking at the facts.
Going back to what Xe’ra was trying to do to Illidan there isn’t much parallel with this and slavery tbh.
She wanted to create her own vision of what she thought Illidan SHOULD be, he didn’t agree to that vision.
As an individual person himself, he can reject someone else’s vision of himself. And reserves the right to stop them from forcefully changing him to follow that vision.
In regard to Illidan and Xe’ra, they both had the same goal - end the Burning Legion. They disagreed on Illidan’s personal weapon of choice.
Illidan was also being shortsighted; focusing only on the Burning Legion when there are other universe-destroying threats beside the Burning Legion and Xe’ra knew that.
Considering that weapon of choice was within his own body, I can see why.
Illidan’s own personal motivations were to take out the Legion, he doesn’t really care for any of the other stuff.
He’s largely selfish, his motivations just happened to align with ours when the Legion invaded.
That being said, it’s largely none of his business and he can decide not to concern himself with it.
Xe’ra can’t force Illidan to care about other cosmic threats like the Void Lords or whatever if he doesn’t want to.
At most, I think Xe’ra would’ve wanted Illidan to help the fight against the other cosmic threats once the Legion was dealt with, but she couldn’t force him to, just as she didn’t force Turalyon to accept her original opposition to Alleria.
