The gold comes from Blizz, they own every single piece. Blizz makes the missions/tables to earn gold. Blizz takes them away. Players have ZERO control of this. Blizz makes and changes the gold making rules at whim. It is not player run. If you think it is, please bring back wod garrison table gold missions.
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How do you win a game that never ends? If the devs put bis in the game store, then release an expansion 2 months later that makes all that gear garbage, is it still P2W? you havent won. Look at world of tanks or wizards at the coast for that.
Again, you are.
Is the mythic+/raid group going to take a lower ilvl healer over someone more geared?
Are you going to be as competitive as a fully arena geared player in pvp when you are in honor gear?
Like I’ve said, “winning” is subjective. Is clearing all the content considered winning? Is getting a high arena rating winning?
In either case, more gold = more carries = more loot = better gear.
No one cares about carries, we really dont. But saying whaling your way to a high ilvl isn’t an advantage is comical. Again, it’s more gold = more carries.
When there’s only cosmetic options available, that is when a game is not P2W.
Not sure why you’re so adamant to defend this. This is the same style of thinking that took $2.50 horse armor and turned it into every game having a battlepass with the ability to buy in game gold.
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So you are saying that if I can get the “sword of 1000 truths” from a raid drop makes it so if I buy it with cash it isnt p2w? WOW raiders want “exclusive” items/mogs/titles/mounts etc but then go sell them on a daily basis. Blizz should sell them themselves and at least benefit the game.
you have yet to define winning an MMO. That is your first mistake.
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This isn’t a downside…This kinda just evens the playing field between those who work more, and those who play more
No, it doesn’t. This argument is always stupid.
Funny always saw people posting they wanted to sell carries…even back in WotLK
still not pay to win by the actual definition of pay to win. someday you will learn definitions of things.
Very true
Disagree, wow wasnt pay to win before wow token just because you can buy an account or buy gold against the rules doesnt make a game p2w imo.
Hey you responded to the right thread this time lol.
I don’t think you understood my response…I was saying them calling it pay 2 win because of tokens is not correct
So if blizz sells a sword in the store that one shots all player characters and sets the same weapon as a drop on a boss that only appears for 10 min on a random server on jan 1st for 10 min and gives it a drop rate of .00000001, its ok(and not p2w) because you can get the same advantage in the game?
If blizzard contracts with Grufoco Corp and allows them to open a store that sells BIS gear, its ok and not P2W because it isnt the developer doing it?
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And if you compare wotlk classic with retail it worked. Less bots used and less rmt gold bought. Yes retail has bots but no where near what wotlk classic has and the gold seller spam in wotlk classic is next level.
Even animated lamp posts in a video games use real electricity. Time spent reading a book takes some of your time. Sleeping takes your time. Playing a game takes your time, and time is money.
No, that would be P2W because that’s sanctioned by Blizzard. This isn’t that difficult of a concept to grasp and I refuse to believe that so many of you are incapable of actually understanding it.
So if they sold bis gear on the shop it wouldnt be pay to win then cause its available in game?
Disagree, buying wow gold then buying mythic gear is the same thing with one extra step
People call it to pay to win most of the time it just means paying for power using real life money over somebody that doesnt so it. Its just easy to say p2w… you can 100% skip progression and pay for power in wow that is out of the question, the rest is semantics
selling runs is sanctioned by blizz. so that is p2w.
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New player joins the game, they ask a friend if you can p2w. They say no, you log in, instantly boost to 60 level to 70, buy 10 wow tokens max out all professions with gold then buy carriers for arena and mplus and heroic raids. Buy all epic gear you can as upgrades.
Yea you 100%, cant use real money to skip progression and gain power.
/s
In your example they would still need to run the hypothetical instance 1000s of times to attain the rare drop. Probably millions.
When I researched p2w after I’d posted I found it’s not so clear cut. Some sources use your definition, one used the one I referenced in my original post and also made it sound like the term only applied to f2p games, I guess it’s not clear cut at all what applies and what does not. If the question is whether gold sold for cash can be used to gain an advantage over other players then I would say yes. If asked if it’s a p2w tactic I’m not so sure.
Could you be earning money during that time you are leveling? It doesn’t make sense to equate time that you aren’t earning money to somehow saving money. If you have a regular 9-5 that is
IMHO abso-frakking-lutely. There are zero downsides because no matter what some say, WoW is not now and never hasbeen P2W. Everything is avaliable through playing the game via gold so it invalidates complaining about the shop. Carries have always existed, they are now far less likely to cost you your account. And the best part is that I can play for free. Even during gold poor BfA I was always able to generate the cost of a token without impacting my actual playing. Without the token I’d never play WoW again, since if I had to spend real money I’d play FFXIV instead. 
