Was Alliance Losing the War?

Lore Story Forum
142

No thank you evil. I’ve tried, I’ve seen others try, but any attempt to engage you in an actual discussion that has an end result of anything but “eliminate every single orc, troll, tauren, forsaken, blood elf, etc” gets brushed off and crapped on.

I’ll not engage or attempt to engage you in actual discussion. I have better things to waste my time on. I could level archeology from scratch, for example.

Y’know what angered me the most about Cataclysm? When they removed all the original quests surrounding Stockades and replaced them with nothing substantial.

It’s a small thing, but that quest chain? Where you can trace it from Westfall questing, into Deadmined, to Redridge, into Stockades, then the keep itself, and so on? It was engaging. It showed corruption, but also showed people fighting it. It had depth. I’ll never forget hiding in the bushes in the keep’s garden thinger, spying on a nobleman working with… A Defias I think? Spying on their conversation for SI:7 was great stuff.

It was replaced by a single guard inside Stockades, sending you to kill Hogger (or did you?). I really feel like this could be a summary of the change in priorities in the development team’s storytelling abilities.

Sure, we could have a storyline that begins in a starter zone, takes you through two dungeons, three zones, across the ocean to another zone, and ultimately hints at connections all the way to a raid boss dragon corrupting the kingdom… But it’s be just easier to put a dude near a dungeon entrance to ask you to kill a joke boss. While we’re at it, let’s replace that first storyline with pop culture jokes about a show people will forget five years later. Subtlety and long-term storytelling is too much when you can just explain things quick and wrap them up in a cinematic.

Meh. I miss moral ambiguity and being able to speculate on things and connections. Not a fan of playing black hats vs white hats.

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143

I don’t mean me. But Aviala, in case you haven’t noticed I am trying to stay out of it for once and see what you “moderates” come up with.

But I see that you are not interested in that. You just want to fight more. Otherwise why reply to me rather than Aviala who spent so much time typing out all her ideas?

You are proving my point that Horde players are not interested in a resolution depite their conciliatory words about understanding the other side or whatever.

144

She was talking to you, Phae. I was letting you know why us “moderate Horde” players might not be as interested in biting at your baited hooks with lines like this:

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145

And the Star Wars Sequels make the victories and trials of the heroes of original trilogy look pointless. But that doesn’t change the fact that the original trilogy are great movies, and the sequels are garbage, aside from the visuals.

BFA has great visuals too.

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146

For the third and last time.

You moderate Horde/Alliance players try and attempt at a compromise and lets see what you moderates come up with when you accuse people like me as trolling and ruining the conversation.

Several times now I have tried to push you towards a more constructive discussion. NOT WITH ME! But with another poster but you refuse to do it.
Its incredible.

148

I tried in another thread.. I even asked for input and altered it.

You and other Alliance players dismissed it. Your criticism was that the Horde was presented as anything other than monsters deserving of their destruction. On the other side, I was criticized because it showed Alliance characters doing things that they didn’t consider entirely heroic.

It really is an impossible needle to thread because we’re honestly talking about the disparate desires of dozens of people here on the forums and thousands/millions of the greater audience.

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149

Oh really?

Seems more like trolling.

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150

Blizzard should hire you, seriously.

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151

Yes really.
Because those replies appear BEFORE Aviala posted her reply. How about you reply to her instead of trying to antagonize me?
You don’t even like talking to me or even respond to my points. Just ignore me and try to have a constructive conversation with Aviala instead.

152

Didn’t you suggest to kill Tyrande in that post of yours?

153

…not sure if that’s sarcasm or not here on The Great Interwebs…

…but honestly, what she described sounds like more than Blizzard will EVER give us.

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154

no, it wasn’t sarcasm. good stuff.

i rarely see things that actually benefits both sides and doesn’t necesarily screws the other, if there is a common ground, things like that is what we need.

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155

I did not. I suggested that they expel the Night Warrior spirit from her. I did suggest Anduin make a noble sacrifice in order for them to accomplish it though.

156

Oh right. I got to read your post again to really comment on it.
But the general feeling I got after reading your suggestion left me feeling more punished than vindicated or satisfied.

157

As a bit of a side note, your thread was the reason I put ‘Make Rogers an utter villain to the Horde’ as one of my main points. My main objection with your earlier scenarios was making Tyrande, Elune, or night elves in general into full villains after everything else that happened to the faction. I think the night elves would need several victories and a period of feeling proud of themselves before any of their characters could be made into villains.

Rogers, however, is perfectly primed to be a villain to the Horde, without the undertones of guilt that using Jaina as a villain to them would cause.

Yeah, sadly. :cry: I think the ambassador NPC part wouldn’t be hugely difficult for them to add, though. And the capitol cities for the expansion after Shadowlands could be something they’d do anyway, so making them night elf/Forsaken cities shouldn’t be too hard, right? sigh I can dream, at least…

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158

Which changes not a single bit about how you’re not trying to engage anyone in conversation. You’re baiting your troll hook, hoping for something you can troll on.

I’ve done it. Many times. Each time, you responded with more trolling. More strawmen. More false narratives. Like you’ve done to others in this thread, all while claiming you just “want constructive conversations”.

So. No thank you evil. You don’t get to have constructive conversations if you’ll only respond to them with trolling.

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159

Maybe one day they will make a new continent where its actually the old continent but in a different timeline.
But I doubt it.

Blizzard doesn’t have that kind of playerbase/money anymore.
Nothing will be reconstructed.

160

I really am not. Is it so hard for your to believe that I just dislike the Horde to that extent?

You know if you think I am so bad. Why even reply to me? Why are you baiting me? I wasn’t even talking to you when you responded.
Do you want to discuss things or do you just want to exchange petty hate messages? What is even the point? We aren’t even discussing lore, you are just going off on me saying how bad/evil I am.

Is this your attempt to somehow troll the troll? Is that what you think you are accomplishing here?

161

Because you claim to want a thing, then do everything you can to ensure you don’t get that thing. What, suddenly you’ve done a full 180 and want constructive debate? When an hour ago, you were doing everything you could to tear down actual debate?

No. Not working.

No, those attempts usually have me calling you things like hon, baby, girlfriend and sweetie. You know, talk down to you to provoke. I’m honestly not trying to provoke you, nor do I expect that I have. As much as I know you don’t see it, I have a bit more respect for you than that.

I honestly believe you honestly don’t know why people might not be inclined to engage you in meaningful discussions. I think you’re oblivious to your own tone, which isn’t uncommon at all, nor is it a slight. I’m hoping that somehow, you’ll see that what you think is meaningful discussion comes across as trolling.

I’m doubtful, but I’m hopeful.

EDIT: Regardless, I think I’m done with you for this thread. Either you’ll get it or you won’t. I’m done derailing.

162

I feel like Blizzard could easily do a whole lot more to make the World feel more alive than they do.

The World Quest system is incredibly flexible, and as seen in BFA they are open to adding it to old zones / revamped zones. They do not have to revamp every zone / city, but adding World Quests that could add context / development to the world could really go a long way to making it feel like things ‘are’ happening, just off screen. Quests such as protecting a Caravan going from Crossroads to the border of Durotar (The Southfury River), or helping some Druids regrow a few trees in Ashenvale. They could add as many quests as they could think of all over Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms to help introduce new NPCs, hint at larger stories happening behind the scenes, and more.

As to Aviala’s post, I love all of it. Blizzard even showed they were willing to add a large amount of flavor text and chats happening over the Capitol cities… surely it would not be hard to add few more every patch, with ambassadors talking, citizens gossiping, and more.

Literally lines like:
Excited Night Elf Citizen: “Did you hear about the regrowth of Darkshore? I heard entire groves are being mended over night.”
Night Elf Citizen: “I heard Malfurion himself leads the efforts. It will not be long until we return to our homelands.”

Worried Orgrimmar Citizen: In a Hushed tone “There are less and less Forsaken in Orgrimmar every day. What could they be plotting?”
Orgrimmar Citizen: “The Council announced they will be helping to move them to a new city.”

If Blizzard ‘doesn’t have the resources’ for the full zone revamps we all want, they can at least put in the bare minimum effort of things like that. At this point, my expectations are so low that just about any positive development would be enough to soar over them.

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