I’ve played the story quest-lines as both Horde and Alliance in BfA and the general impression from cut-scenes and cinematics like Lost Honor and The Negotiation seem to imply that the Alliance was losing the 4th war… yet playing the story-lines it seems the Alliance is actually winning.
The raid on Zuldazar implied the Horde was losing…
So… which is it?
The tides of war shifted back and forth and in the end neither side “won” because the two faction system is a “core” part of the game or whatever according to the developers.
Before 8.2.5 the Alliance was winning, then all of a sudden the Horde was winning in that patch with Sylvanas’ forces alone outnumbering the Alliance and the rebellion. Now the Horde is united again and they managed to get their peace with the Alliance even after all the things they have done and the horrible crimes they have commited, so I’d say the Horde got away way better overall. They gained atleast some land, ressources, nearly wiped out an enemy race, caused a schism within the Alliance and got a much stronger grip on Kalimdor, then in 8.3 they managed to have a peace treaty with the Alliance with no conditions.
The alliance won the war, the cinematics arent a different storyline, everything is together
I understand that there can never be a true ‘winner’ since the game is based on 2 opposing factions that require balance.
But the cinematics and cutscenes have implied the Horde was winning while the actual quests on BOTH sides imply the Alliance was winning.
I was just curious if there was a canonical side… like was the Alliance losing until Varok started another rebellion? Anduin outright says he cannot stop Sylvannas and his army was all but-depleted yet the Alliance war effort from the perspective of both Horde and Alliance players seemed to be going really well.
winning isnt about killing your enemy to extiction or courqueroring all there lands, if that was true, very little wars had a winner in human history.
The horde was winning at first, and then the alliance started winning, you know its normal for sides to have advantages in wars, its not like axis was never winning in ww2
The Alliance was defeated in the opening act, and then won every engagement that took place thereafter. Even if they met some speed bumps, they were never again in danger of losing after Teldrassil. The plan to use Saurfang to incite civil war with their foes was a great success, and they got the Horde’s government to change to a pro-peace faction.
The Alliance might not have gotten anything out of their wins, but they most certainly won everything.
I believe this was more a matter of Anduin realizing that he did not understand Sylvanas, and he in particular was not a person who would be able to out maneuver Sylvanas, as she had outplayed him every time so far.
lol… that sentence is pretty contradictory… either they got nothing out of their wins or they won ‘everything’…
That’s a fair point.
Not necessarily, if they were fighting for status quo antebellum.
It’s kind if like… Mario saves Peach from Bowser again. Mario always wins. And Peach will still never be in love with him.
The horde was losing the war where non-sylvannas plans were taken, this means basically everywhere.
Blizz said the alliance won both warfronts.
The alliance succesfully sacked and fellback afterwards in attacking the hordes new naval ally.
The horde once again lost it’s warchief,this time possibly permantly ending that title.
the alliance was losing the war mainly out of staying unified because Anduin was pushing extremly hard into important warzones but forgetting about other spots, like darkshore,gilneas/lordearon, ect. This essentially has made his once tightknit council of leaders and advisors pretty distant from him meanwhile the horde has become a unified group,now with no more leaders being bloodthirsty(until blizz needs another faction war) it’s possible they can rebuild and reform tighter then before.
but time will tell.
Think of it like Schrodinger’s Cat. The Alliance was winning, and losing the war simultaneously according to Blizzard, who isn’t going to let us see in the box ourselves.
Anduin achieved his strategic objective- Sylvanas no longer leads the Horde, allowing for peace. So, through whatever combination of circumstance and design you want to attribute, Anduin won.
Tyrande has not achieved her strategic objectives- bringing Sylvanas/whoever she sees as the perpetrators of the War of Thorns to justice. Tyrande did not win with 4th war, but nor was she defeated.
Saurfang (and assorted friends) achieved his objective- stop Sylvanas’s leadership from bringing further harm to the Horde. Saurfang may have died, but he still achieved strategic victory, even if one that may have verged on pyrrhic. Still, tink-tink. He unified the lion’s share of the Horde against Sylvanas’ vision of it.
Sylvanas… data not found. Her motivations both stated and from internal dialogue are all over the place. Whatever her ultimate plan was in terms of the war, she didn’t seem to achieve her full strategic objective, as her hand was ultimately forced. However, it seems she was able to do enough to move forward with whatever the heck she’s actually trying to do, so she wasn’t defeated. Jury is still out until we know more from Shadowlands, but just on the 4th war itself, I’m putting it into the loss column, because she was ultimately forced into a conflict and abandoned her position- so loss of the war itself, but not whatever her objectives beyond the scope of it happen to be.
Its not like you guys are squeaky clean either between botched assasination attempts, wiping out of tribes cause of we may want to dig here one day reasons, racial discrimination and execution both sides are both as bad as each other
Those tribes were marching around on top of valuable cultural relics of a soon to be tragically wiped out culture! HOW ELSE CAN WE PRESERVE THEIR STORIES I SAY!
https://imgflip.com/i/3vaud6What? They thought the might find titan artifacts in the area hence why they killed them all and oh look no titan artifacts well ummm awkward
That was the joke, yes.
My bad its 4am and tired my level of brain function isnt that great right now