Oh, sorry mate, you seem to have mistook my question mark, for an actual question, instead of rhetorical.
No, it does not.
It’s really not.
You’re honest to god equating popularity to capability.
Hahahahahahaha.
Top guilds don’t public log you silly goose.
So, you’re going to tell me it’s the casuals that have downed the last 4 bosses? Wrong, these are guilds that are mythic raiders, and good ones at that. They may not be in the top 100, but they are the top 1%. Well, more like the top .01%. They are after all millions playing this game.
You’re honest to God trolling, it has been long accepted evidence that a class with hardly any parses is a poor class, but now you want to Gaslight and change that long-held well-proven stat as something other than what it is. I’ve shown my evidence (real logs) we have the sims, that back that up, you have nothing, just your mouth.
So, prove your position with real evidence.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/25#class=Tanks&bracket=14
Here we have prot warriors shown to be way lower in Mythic + at the higher end of doable keys. As we can see here Prot is way lower than every other tank. All data we have is pointing one direction. I have a mountain of evidence that supports my position. We also know M+ is going to be a lot more about who can survive. So, where is yours?
This isn’t always the case. There’s an incredibly strong bias these days where you’ll have perfectly functional classes/specs seeing much lower representation because:
Take Elbroiblo, the Enh Sham. In BfA he was popping incredibly high M+ keys, essentially light years ahead of the second best Enh Sham in the world. I just checked, and he’s 50 .io above the second highest Enh in the world right now, and 150+ higher than 10th in the world.
Now slot those numbers into the Hunter rankings. Elbroiblo would be about 15th in the world with his Enh score, the 2nd highest Enh would be about 30th, and the 10th highest Enh would be about 110th.
Is Enh not capable because it has much fewer high parses? Because based on the highest performing Enh it’s perfectly capable. People who want to push those keys though often rather flock to the class of least resistance, but that doesn’t necessarily mean other classes/specs are poor.
I think so. We don’t invite them in any spec.
Sad.
Enh got a bad rap in 9.0. What I am saying though is when we look at all the data we can get some pretty good idea’s. Meaning M+, raid data, and what the very best players are saying about those classes. All together we can get a good view of what is what. What we have here is fans who live in a bubble.
Look at feral, 9.0 said feral was terrible, it got a bad rap, but the high end players like Psybearslat said it was good, Tiqqle said Enh was good, etc. While in certain areas like high keys Feral has lower parses it is doing very good in raids. So we have data showing us they may be better than what was previously said. We have the same with Enh data showing it’s better than what was said.
What we don’t have is data showing prot is better.
You’re calling guilds clearing heroic top guilds?
Let’s look!
There’s obviously guilds like Echo/Method, Pieces, Limit, Aversion.
Then there’s a wr 10k guild, a wr 300, wr 1500, wr 200, and wr 300.
Clearing heroic is does not make you a top guild.
hahahahahahahaha.
Foot in mouth. Nearly half the guilds that have cleared heroic have never cleared mythic.
No, it’s been long assumed.
Perfect example; survival hunter. Consistently one of the least played specs in the game, period.
Yet throughout BFA, it consistently performed in the upper half of the specs, often even outputting top tier damage. But because it was not popular, it was perceived as being weaker than it actually was. This is a false equivalency, and it’s often used (by people like you) that would rather over-simplify things.
This does not mean what you think it means. Kindly, never, use that term with me again, lad.
You really want to go down this road?
I’m down. You go ahead and prove it, and I’ll fact check.
What do sims have to do with what is being discussed…?
Your entire data point for prot being weak is A; tier lists, and B; that it’s not as popular as other tank specs.
That’s not data.
I always have found it weird that most casual or semi-casual players will scream their brains out over any changes that the 1% demand and go on about how they aren’t the player base so the game should reflect the majority not the minority.
And then everyone goes and demands changes based of the top 1%'s logs and experiences…
Wish I had been keeping stats on my Mythic 0 accept/decline ratio as Fury for the past two weeks…
However, that experience is pretty much reflected in the current Logs.
Now to decide much time to waste this time around before switching to Holy Paladin or MM Hunter…
I think Blizz purposely makes some classes strong or weak depending on the theme of the expansion.
Back in Wrath, Pallies and DKs were far stronger than Warrior on purpose. Now? Maybe the same thing.
And in Legion, we thought Blizz added a higher drop rate to legendaries for real money subs. It was the only explanation why I saw 2 before the rest of my M+ group.
Except at least we were self aware enough to be joking. You can rationalize anything any way you like, but there’s no way this is actually true.
You think Paladins and DKs were just coincidentally the strongest classes (by far) in Wrath?
Fact is, someone has to be worst and someone has to be best. And yes I do think what I said influences who they decide is best and who is worst.
You’re trying really hard to be obtuse aren’t you? I never said what you are insinuating. Again a normal heroic guild is not clearing or coming close to clearing Nathria, only very good mythic raid guild are.
Foot in mouth right back at ya, when did I ever say all guilds that clear heroic are mythic guilds? That is most absurd rubbish.
Accepted and assumed is pretty much the same thing in this setting with very slight differences in meaning.
I’m not a lad and Gaslighting is a form of manipulation when you try to make someone think history or what they know to have happened differently than what it actually did. Such as trying to manipulate me into thinking I don’t know what I know happened Aka gaslighting.
And still, after all that, you have nothing, absolutely zero evidence to back up your claims, no data, no statistics, no expert testimony. I think this the end of this conversation with you. Not going to waste my time.
Yep, I totally agree, though this xpac what would be the theme? We don’t even know what Zovaal is yet. This may be a Order vs Death theme. So what, Priest, Pali, and DK are going to be the thing?
I think the Themes are within the Covenants, but they are terribly balanced ATM, who knows with those.
I mean Shadow Priest is S-tier. Sub rogue (the shadow themed one) randomly went from unviable to the best rogue spec and one of the best PvP specs overall.
If you have paid attention over the years, you would have noticed this trend. Ret paladin went from garbage in vanilla/TBC to S-tier in Wrath.
There isn’t a 100% correlation, but it’s pretty strong.
With regard to Demon Hunter, it was strong in both Legion and BfA. Blizz considers content to be ‘old’ once it is at least one expansion removed from the current one. So Demon Hunters became ‘old content’ as soon as BfA ended. And I think that’s perhaps why Havoc was suddenly gutted as well.
Frankly, there are far too many specs in WoW to effectively balance. And it doesn’t seem like they always try to balance certain specs or even classes.
Strongest at what? Based on what?
If you’re going to make a claim you should try to back it up. Also, one of the most basic principles of science is that correlation doesn’t imply causation.
Even if you prove they were the strongest, why does that imply anything about Blizz’s design philosophy?
I don’t think there is much point in debating the topic if you have to ask that first question. And I don’t really care to prove it either. You don’t have to believe what I think. Believe whatever you want.
And I have published research so I don’t need a lesson on the fundamentals of science.
Lmao, and my dad works at Blizzard, what of it?
Why make claims on a public forum if you have no interest in supporting them? Why do so many people think that factual claims are a matter of belief that don’t need any supporting information?
How do you wear a published science hat for a job, then come here and abandon all of your principles?
I just don’t understand is all.
I only responded to you because you attacked what you perceive to be my lack of self-awareness. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have bothered. Anyone who has to ask how Paladins and DKs were OP in Wrath isn’t worth my time. And I’m done wasting what little time I have on you.
And I qualified my initial post with “I think” and ended it with a “maybe” anyway so it was hardly stated as a matter of fact.
Takes a lot to make Derez laugh. Good one.
I’ve been leveling up my warrior and actually really enjoying it. Haven’t tried Prot in awhile though. I think its just a numbers tuning issue because they seem to play well. Just a bit weak.