Oops forgot about that. Also important.
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Most guilds will only have one rogue so the next pair can go to the warrior.
Most guilds are running a prot and a holy so you get 2 of the 3. You probably drop salv, particularly on melee, since threat is less of an issue in TBC.
Because a retâs dps isnât even remotely close to a rogues unfortunately.
Seal twist ret is a very competitive melee.
25 slots doesnt even leave room for 3 of each class, and if you bring 3 warriors youâre going to want 2 prot 1 arms. So youâre saying thereâs plenty of room for at least 4 warriors? Now you have 21 slots for 8 classes⌠meaning at most 5/8 will get 3 raid slots.
Want to bring 5 shamans like most guilds will? OK, now youâre down to 16 slots for 7 classes.
3 paladins for 3 blessings? 13 spots for 6 classes.
3 warlocks for 3 curses? 10 spots for 5 classes.
So go ahead, inform your guild that 5 classes will only be able to have 2 players raid, just so a selfish & stubborn 4th warrior doesnât have to play prot or arms.
I think a lot of people will be quite surprised if tbc is released. Besides a t6 glaive rogue, I would say horde ret will keep pace and may even beat most other melee dps on the meters at the top end of the player pool.
We dont have to speculate. Old logs/private servers exist⌠and Rets, even with SOB, are still coming in 30% or so under rogues/warriors
I can guarantee you they will be the weakest melee DPS spec (aside from Cats that donât powershift).
Just the unfortunate state of things.
Which makes the threat discussions so amusing to me that youâre this quick to dismiss Blessing of Salvation. Nevertheless, a Warlock would still want Salv/Kings/Wisdom, especially with all the mana battery obsession people are going to have fighting over the Shadow Priest.
Color me highly skeptical that dropping a high tier DPS for a Ret Paladin is flatly inferior.
Also note that for a Protection Paladin to get Imp. Seal of the Crusader, they have to give up 3% Parry, or some chunk of DPS or EH in the Protection tree. There are 51pts of exceptionally good PvE Tanking talents in Prot, so thereâs a good chance that youâd want a Ret anyway for the comfortable application of the crit debuff as well as the party-wide damage buff aura, third blessing, and perma judgement uptime.
Most guilds definitely wont be bringing 5 shamans. Even if they were inclined to, and most wont be, alliance side particularly there just wont be enough to make that possible
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Lol??? In what world is a warlock mana starvedâŚ
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The world where they donât want to Life Tap as often (if at all)
Just because they can refresh their mana continuously by cutting themselves, it doesnât mean they want to over casting another Shadowbolt.
Ret players on pserver are much better than they were 15 years ago. Seal twisting and use of dark runes are prominent on pservers. Did rets do that consistently in 2007? Idk. I just follow the pserver scene and know that a properly geared and played ret can pump pretty hard, especially on demon bosses.
People donât seem to understand that point at all.
Itâs why Warlocks use Major Mana Potions and Dark Runes in Classic. No GCD to restore their mana, which means more DPS.
The mana potions get replaced by Destructive Potions in TBC, though, so the addition of Judgement of Wisdom is greatly welcomed by Warlocks.
Not saying its useless⌠but its far far from mandatory, and definitely not worth bringing a ret paladin on itâs own. And if your warlocks really need it that bad, you drop Salv. 2 blessings is almost always optimal vs bringing a ret, particularly alliance side. If you reeeeeally have to have 3 blessings, you bring a 2nd holy
I guess people just donât play Warlocks ever.
I mean sure, we have Warlocks gaining Fel Armor (increased healing on themselves) and Soul Leech (30% chance to heal for 20% of your damage), but even with JoW on the boss, having Blessing of Wisdom on top of that, plus a Shadow Priest and/or Shaman for more regen can probably bridge a huge amount of the gap so they donât even have to think about resources at all.
Again⌠if weâre just dropping Salvation like that, I have to again be amused by how adamant everyone was being about good vs bad threat regarding Tanks, particularly when we consider fights with stricter defensive gearing requirements like Brutallus.
I dontât remember âeveryone being adamant about threatâ like⌠at all. All tanks are more or less equal threat wise, with paladins being a little worse single-target and better aoe.
But the biggest change is now your highest dps are mostly ranged which gives you a much higher threat buffer than when melee are riding the line. Not to mention theyâve got threat-reduction talents like soul-shatter where the warriors of classicâs only option was to just stop dpsing.
/siiiiiiiiiiiigh
If everyone is so casually ahead of the DPS then any comparison between Tanks regarding TPS is pointless.
Except, the difference between you and me is that Iâm not going to be gatekeeping a 15-year-old game. People are going to play the way they want to play and figure out what works and what doesnât work without your input or mine.
T5 they are fine, and T6 does not have tight DPS checks. But you canât throw away 1200 raid dps on Brutallus or Muru progression. And Iâm saying that as a 2k DPS mage back then in a Sunwell clearing guild. I would not have brought three of me, and we did not.