Since the launch of TWW Warriors have received several changes to our AoE damage, specifically around our burst cooldowns.
With the most recent changes towards our target cap around these abilities (Warbreaker, Thunderous Roar, and Odyn’s Gury) it changes all of our AoE damage profile options to be capped at 5.
Normally changes thar affect damage profiles are changes reserved for larger patches not when a season is typically in progress.
I feel thoes changes should be reserved for a new season, and a full PTR cycle around the new content. Especially since these changes feel specifically raid focused, and fights will differ from season to season. The next raid may not have sections where Fury’s burst is as potent as it is in Nerub’ar Palace at the moment.
5 Likes
I finally came back to WoW after such a long break and fell in love with Warrior. The burst playstyle was enjoyable. Following the recent change and this projected change has only made me personally want to drop the game again.
Blizzard clearly excels at killing fun and balancing the game for the top 50-100 players. Looking at the data its clear many other classes are pulling ahead of Warrior as they unlock their 4-sets. In addition the higher M+ keys others are out classing warrior as trash lives through our burst.
Really hoping the dev team takes time to review these changes more carefully.
3 Likes
i would like to know wich developper keeps nerfing arms warrior, for real
2 Likes
At least buff mountain thane, I made a couple of suggestions sometime ago.
Wtf are these nerfs?
The continual nerfs making me want to quit again. At this point, I don’t think anyone on the dev team even plays the class at all. Look at the most recent raid logs-- we already middle of the pack at best. Lets not even talk about our ST performance. I want some of whatever the person in charge of this balancing is smoking.
3 Likes
Warriors needed nerfing and no amount of sophistry is gonna get you out of that. DK’s and rogues are bound to get it as well.
1 Like
Traditionally these changes to damage profiles are reserved for bigger patches so players can plan accordingly.
Because these extend to Arms a well (a spec that seeing soley single target play in Nerub’Ar Palace and less in M+) my assumption with the changes are not only to nerf, but also normalize the number of targets Warrior CDs hit (With these changes they’ll be capped at 5 and reduced after that).
This is a big change that shouldn’t be introduced in a .5 Patch without a reexamination of both Arms and Fury’s damage profiles.
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People who argue for delays to meaningful balancing usually want to sit on a season of being ahead. No, thanks, I’d rather they follow the S1 DF model of aggressive balancing.
If that is the case, than Fury terribly needs single target buffs. Arms has several dead talents such as Battle Lord and Exhilarating Blows that have no place in the spec, despite having a hero tree that wants to reset Mortal Strike as often as possible.
It’d be something else if these changes weren’t straight nerfs to specs that have legitimate issues besides burst AoE thats not terribly out of line with what other classes are also bringing to the table.
Raid Design is dictating too much of the balance of one spec, and that leaves players in other aspects of the game at the mercy of encounter designs.
2 Likes
Nerfing the extremely high burst damage for short duration fights may be warranted, but doing it via changing target soft cap amount is the worst way to do it. You change the damage niche profile that will have cascading impacts on other fight situation.
Are they broken damage-wise in single target? In short burst low target count AoE? In sustained high target count AoE? No? Then why the Damage aura nerf? If anything the damage profile is anywhere from below average to ok in those situations.
Sure in short burst high count AoE it looks excessive and changing the cap can rein it in, but wouldn’t tuning down the initial first damage of the culprit abilities have the same effect without impacting the sustained AoE situation?
2 Likes
Burst aoe and cleave being out of line is not a raid specific balancing approach, it is evidently an M+ derived one, where fury is an incredibly strong spec, albeit not as busted as DK and rogues or mages.
Fury should absolutely see its single target output improved or build options expanded so it doesn’t have to choose between ST and aoe.
But hard caps are a traditional approach for Blizzard to curb the power of runaway burst aoe specs. They’ve done it to shadow priests, and I’m surprise they’ve taken this long to do it to fire mages as well. Outlaw rogues are already hardcapped, as are enhancement shamans. DK’s are the other outlier where currently BoS is way too effective and Unholy isn’t behind either.
But now try to put yourself in the position of hunters or dev evokers or subtlety rogue or even feral druids. There is simply no way you can explain why should one class have access to immense uncapped aoe burst and another is told that their niche is different, yet said niche is useless and they don’t even excel at it.
Arms and Fury are both capped at 5 targets for most abilities, dealing reduced post that number. The only abilities that aren’t affected by the 5 cap, are Thunderous Roar, Odyn’s Fury and Warbreaker (which you don’t use for damage it’s used to apply Colossus Smash to a bunch of targets) that all have a target cap of 8, reduced past that number.
Warriors have never had Uncapped AoE in TWW. In fact outside of the ability I mentioned Fury has pretty infamously been able to hit a maximum of 5 targets (not even reduced after just 5) with meat cleaver since at least BfA.
If the burst is the issue address that via indvidual tuning and leave changing the damage profile until next season.
Fury is rapidly approaching the “excels at nothing” category of damage profiles. Again if these changes were actually met with some semblance of, “We’re re-adjusting burst and adding Single Target” I wouldn’t have made this thread. Instead it’s a nerf to a spec that’s doing well in one specific aspect of the game primarily due to encounter design.
2 Likes
its ok bro aside from our damage we bring so much to the table such as,
4 Likes
The first couple nerfs were warranted, but were already at the point of purple logging a fight and getting beat by classes green logging the same fight. even against classes that are 10 ilvls behind us. even in mythic+ where our burst should still keep us in a pretty good place on damage I am being beaten by ret paladins aoe when they are 5-10 ilvls behind me. so im just going to be losing on all fronts.
4 Likes
Where are you getting your stats from? Cause in M+ aside from a few really good warriors, we are at the bottom of the pack when it comes to dps. Most other classes keep up or are ahead of us even within our burst windows, once we are done with our burst everyone immediately catches up on meters. This nerf is 200% not needed.
3 Likes
They might need to tone down the burst. It’s actually absurd even after the previous two sets of nerfs to it, but compensate with single target which is also our pathetic 5 target capped cleave. Fury is below aug evoker single target. That cannot be intended. If it is, I wish they would just say so, so I can play another class until they fire whoever is in charge of warrior.
Don’t worry, they nerfed fury again because of all the utility we bring.
Been waiting for the Arms + Fury rework for some time now.
Blizz still can’t figure out Arm’s position relative to the other DPS classes, and Fury needs a hard rework to move away from the 4-1 rotation, and reduce unnecessary APM.
Warbreaker changes are meh, it’s not really used for damage-- just to apply the 30%
Thunderous Roar nerf/soft cap makes me think they want warriors to use Champion’s Spear, but it’s still dogwater on a 1.5 min cooldown, for a 4-6 second duration.
Maybe it’s time they baked Rend into Deep Wounds, or made Sweeping Strikes into a passive, or maybe they could double-down on the DF iteration of Skullsplitter where the bleeds instantly expire?
I’ve been playing the same warrior for almost 20 years now, wish they’d pick a consistent theme for our DPS specs… And don’t even get me started on Rend.
Every other expansion they take it away from us, and then return it to us the following expac.
/rant off
Fury is not ahead is the problem. These changes shouldn’t even be implemented with the data that is out now that more difficult content has been released.
1 Like
Look at how many fury warriors are in the highest keys timed, not many. Look at how far fury has already fallen in raid. The 3% nerf was not needed and these are definitely not needed. We were already going to fall backwards once mobs lived longer, sustained became more important and other classes gained their tier set, this is just gutting a class with the only thing they bring which is dps. Here is one of the top warriors talking about it. https://youtu.be/YO2oDHnNuz4?si=7qIZqrKoQtNWcN1n
1 Like