I’m seeing alot of misconception of how this will work, so I’ll try and clarify it.
When it’s stated that PvP gear won’t dynamically boost in Warmode, that doesn’t mean it won’t boost in world PvP.
Even right now, with the terrible system we have in place, engaging in PvP out in the open world OUTSIDE of warmode, PvP gear boosts up.
Dragonflight PvP gear simply won’t be constantly boosted up in warmode anymore. It won’t give you an advantage when engaging in PvE while Warmode is active, but the second PvP engagement is detected it DOES boost up.
This is probably the best system for PvP gear balance since WoD, because it’s just a more refined version of that system.
As it stands in Dragonflight Beta, it still boosts dynamically like it does in Shadowlands.
My guess is Blizzard hasn’t yet implemented anything for PvP gear still boosting in War Mode. There’s a ton of stuff they haven’t got around to doing yet for War Mode, such as bounties, war supply crates, and PvP world quest tooltips.
This was the WoD system, and no, this isn’t in place. It’s just the same old Shadowlands version at the moment.
It will definitely scale, given that there is “war mode pvp gear” that can be obtained with a war mode specific currency (the vendor for that is already in), and that gear has a pvp ilevel.
No, the reason why is because it’s the only counter against being outnumbered in War Mode.
I think it’s completely fine in instanced PvP such as arena or battlegrounds, but in an uncontrolled environment like War Mode, it isn’t.
There’s a bunch of reasons why I think PvP gear should not use PvP ilvl in War Mode. I can break a few of them down for you, but you probably don’t care.
Making PvP gear scale in War Mode puts a barrier to entry for any PvE’er who wants to participate in War Mode, because their gear wouldn’t scale up. Your answer to this is probably just going to be, “just get PvP gear.” but that’s really hypocritical considering the people giving that half baked answer don’t even want to do rated PvP for their gear.
PvP gear wouldn’t be irrelevant. PvP gear would actually be the best so long as you upgrade it through rated PvP. I don’t get what’s so hard to grasp with that concept, if you want good PvP gear do the rated content for it.
You have it mistaken. It’s not gear designed for War Mode, it’s gear that you obtain through War Mode. It’s just another avenue of gearing if that’s what you like to do.
Zereth Mortis gear exists in Shadowlands that you can buy from a vendor so long as you have the currency for it, but that doesn’t make it the best gear in Zereth Mortis or anything… It’s still outmatched by higher ilvl PvE gear.
The above example is the same with what you call, “War Mode gear.” Just because it’s obtained from War Mode, doesn’t make it the best gear for War Mode. I hope it’s upgradeable through Rated PvP though like the other PvP gear.
What would be the counter for being outnumbered by people wearing mythic raid gear then? You can’t solve zerging by making the best gear only available from high end PvE. That’s a comically absurd take.
By having high end PvP gear. By doing Rated PvP and upgrading your PvP gear through rating?
PvP gear as it stands is better than PvE gear. You have the PvP trinket set bonus that is literally the best for PvP, all of our gear has Versatility on it which is considered the “PvP stat”, and our gear is targetable and all you need to do is upgrade it if you have the rating.
The amount of players who do mythic raiding is very low in the PvE player base as it stands, look up on raider.io how many players actively participate in mythic raiding and you’ll see it isn’t even a problem. It’s the same for mythic+ players, take a look here at the season percentiles for S4 (U.S). Only the top 10% of players participating in mythic+ even have the gear you’re trying to say they do.
You won’t get outnumbered by players wearing full mythic raid gear, trust me. You’re more likely to get outnumbered by players in their honor or conquest gear that scales to really high ilvl.
Just read here:
I have the beta, so I can actually test more in depth whenever they eventually implement the system.
EDIT:
Found some more information for you if you were curious: Sepulcher of the First Ones (Worldwide) - Mythic Raid Rankings
The above link shows how many guilds worldwide even touch mythic raiding. Only 4,512 guilds have touched mythic raiding worldwide. Break it down by Americas, and only 1,531 guilds in the Americas touch mythic raiding.
Cutting Edge: The Jailer - Achievement
And then this link shows how many players have actually cleared the whole raid and have defeated mythic Jailer for the latest raid, Sepulcher of the First Ones. Only 2% of players have actually done this.
Point being, it’s highly unlikely you’ll be “outnumbered by people wearing mythic raid gear” especially considering those players who do that content, which is low enough already, most likely don’t participate in War Mode.
Stop talking like you’re a dev lol. You’re not, it’s more likely they’re going to stick to their original plan of it not scaling at all.
Clearly didn’t read my post, I didn’t say they should increase PvE ilvl in order to PvP. I’m saying because PvE ilvl doesn’t increase like PvP gear does, it puts a barrier to entry on anyone who isn’t a PvPer wanting to try out War Mode.
Nah, I just don’t like being outnumbered. I’m a solo player, and gear helps when you’re fighting against honor geared scrubs roaming in 5 man parties.
High end rated PvP gear is by design only attainable by a minority of players, and is incompatible with a casual playstyle. Casual players are however the majority and deserve to enjoy all formats of pvp, including world pvp.
What you are really advocating for is an unfair advantage. Your comments about “scrubs” really gives your game up: you have an inflated ego and consider people who don’t do rated PvP, or without a high rating your lessers and unworthy of having a chance to kill you. The outnumbering argument is fallacious as all world pvp scenarios aren’t involving that, and you probably aren’t above doing it either (especially since you seem to be playing a healer, a role fundamentally designed for team play rather than solo play)
Furthermore, you are acting as if you’re the only solo player falling victim to being outnumbered. It affect casual solo players too. You’ll have to suffer the same indignities as everyone else.
There’s a reason I didn’t acknowledge this part in the first place: it’s an orange versus apple comparison. PvE gear exists to create a progression treadmill. People do PvE for the sake of getting better gear to do harder PvE. It works because PvE have you fight computer controlled opponents, and their difficulty can be scaled.
Pvp have you fight everyone and anyone, so you can’t do that and having vastly different level of gear means the gear decide the outcome of the fight, rather than your actual actions during the fight.
So such a progression treadmill doesn’t make sense and won’t work in PvP, which the devs unfortunately forgot after WoD and took the better part of a decade to rediscover.
And high end PvE gear is also by design only attainable by a minority of players.
This scenario you’re trying to make that mythic raiders will outgear you is a laughable one because I provided you the statistics with how many players even do that form of content. Its a low number.
You don’t need 2100 to be on par with a heroic raider, you barely need 1600-1800 which is easily obtainable by a majority of players.
Casual PvPers will have no excuse next expansion to not do Rated PvP because gear will be equalized in rated content. Rated Solo Shuffle will also be a thing, you can use this avenue to upgrade your gear through rating.
People wanted an even playing field, you have it in instanced PvP, the grounds where you will be primarily gearing for PvP. What more could you ask for?
No, because if that were the case, I’d be advocating against equalized gear in instanced PvP. I do battlegrounds, I do rated PvP such as arenas, and I’m completely fine with gear being equalized. Why? Because it’s a controlled environment. WPvP is not a controlled environment, what don’t you understand about that. You have phases that are either heavy enemy faction and no one to help, heavy of your faction and no enemies to kill, or you very rarely get a balanced phase with both.
Most of them are, you clearly don’t do WPvP enough if you think most WPvP scenarios don’t involve being out numbered.
I play Discipline Priest, which is a healer yes, but is the most aggressive healer there is, we damage to heal. I use a lot of WPvP items and buffs to my advantage in WPvP to increase my damage output and survivability as well. I don’t do alot of team play in WPvP, the times I do are when I get players who are around the same gear as me and have a group, so I’ll just bring 2-3 from my guild to help.
I’m not acting as if Im the only solo player having this problem; I’m saying gear is the only thing that helps counter being outnumbered, because if the majority of PvPers are casuals as you say, then that means most of them are probably stuck in honor gear or non upgraded conquest gear.
Gear definitely helps when you’re geared with higher ilvl and they are stuck in lower ilvl. You make everyone equal though and it becomes a zergfest.
PvP isn’t the same across every single game genre or game. In some games it’s reliant on reaction speed, others it’s about strategy, some might even be luck.
World of Warcraft, since day one, has been through power progression and character progression. There is no, “it’s only for PvE, PvE gear is progression.”
No, gear is gear and always has been since vanilla. Just take a look at Wrath of the Lich King Classic, your top PvP gear is rating locked. Wrath was the peak of WoW across the board. This is an MMORPG, you created a character that started at lvl one and from the get go it was clear that anyone higher level than you was stronger than you, and the more gear you got, the stronger you got as well.
It’s absurd to suddenly think at max level that everything is going to be equalized. This game isn’t for you if you don’t think gear should matter to some degree.
I completely agree that in an instanced environment it should be equalized, but not for World PvP which is a chaotic sandbox of its own with a bunch of advantages you can have on your side.
Most of my world pvp encounters involve me attacking someone when they’re alone. But 1v1 fights rarely happen if you don’t initiate them. Perhaps that’s your problem? I often see people claim that world pvp is dead, but I also see few people willing to be the bad guy and attack other people unprovoked. Same for the outnumbering argument, if you only wait for world pvp to be initiated by others and then join in, you’re going to experience mostly unbalanced numbers of opponents.
I’m frankly not going to keep trying to keep arguing against the increasingly twisted logic you are using to try and justify that pvp gear should be equalized only in instanced pvp and not world pvp. You want world pvp to be an extension of rated PvP, rather than a mode standing on its own. You are wrong, but it doesn’t matter that you are.
I just hope that the devs won’t have a stroke of stupidity and agree with you.
What I’ve read and heard the pvp gearing is returning to the old system I grind BGS for honor gear than I grind conquest for superior Arena gear and it won’t be locked behind my personal rating. If this is true than thank goodness. If it isn’t than wow is dead to me.
^^^^^^^Don’t hold your breath. Before Shadowlands launched, the playerbase was assured that PvP would be more competitive then in BFA. Instead, they did the exact opposite to make it the least competitive expansion to date.
Yeaaaahhh. It goes well beyond unethical marketing strategies. That might be understandable. It’s like an Orwellian experiment of bad human behavior. Objective points of view that don’t follow the collective company narrative are not only unwanted, but actionable. What happened behind the scenes the past 10-20 years, some of these folk better find Jesus or whoever they might pray to.
I always initiate fights. I’m the first one to attack those unsuspecting players and they’ll usually try to run. Whenever they’re running away, another Alliance will swoop on down to help them.
I’m using Zereth Mortis as an example, this happens alot here. My ZM phases are often filled with Alliance and if you attack one, there’s going to be more that follow.
I more so want gear to just be gear. I hate this back and forth argument between PvPers and PvE’ers trying to turn the game into PvP vs PvE, claiming who’s gear shouldn’t matter where and who’s gear should be better in what content.
It’s a game, the same game, one area’s gear shouldn’t be useful in only one part of the game, it should be useful in all content which is what Blizzard is doing with our PvP gear. They’re allowing it to be upgradeable through Rated PvP to be useful in PvE, but PvPers for some reason are trying to turn this into a “PvE is the bad guy” argument and gate off PvP to the majority of PvE players and create a barrier of entry.
War Mode should be the area of PvP where gear is gear, regardless if it’s PvE gear or PvP gear. Conquest gear would scale to mythic ilvl making it leagues above any PvE gear.
It’s not stupid wanting character progression in an MMORPG. Not wanting equalization in an area of the game that has always been a chaotic sandbox isn’t stupidity. Why did you even sign up for WoW if you were just going to complain about not being equal? This game has always been about character progression. This isn’t League of Legends.
