Warlock Balance Question

Why do warlocks have significantly more HP than other classes when they are a dps class. Also why do they have so much self healing and so many defensive cooldowns. Is it all necessary>

Really? A mage complaining about warlocks?


Different Toolkits Maara.

Every class have differences and specialities in the Toolkit, Warlocks are “tankier”, Mages have acess to ample versatility, Druids have ability to shift forms form bonus related to those forms.

Now, there is always some “the grass of the neighbor is always greener” between the classes as they notice the advantages of others without acknowledging their own, but that is normal, i am sure many warlocks think Mage abilities are just as unfair while thinking Warlocks are poor sods with nothing to show.

But in reality, everyone have its own cool toys; Be it Druids and its shapeshifting hybrid verastility, Warlocks and its Survivability or Mages and its diverse toolkit.

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I dont know. Why are Mages more tanky than Warlocks right now? Why do mages have so much self heals and ridiculous shields right now? Why are mages, NOT Warlocks in the AWC, in every match while Warlocks are at the local bar, crying in their beer?



Why act so angry at a question dude? relax.

go play one so you find your answer to those questions, pretty sure you will return to your mage in no time

not complaining, im just wondering why they have so much more health it doesnt seem necessary anymore as the abilities that used to require health to use no longer really exist.

I want you to think of this way.

You know the 3 Mage Barriers? they are 1min duration with 25s CD so their uptime allow them to work as pseudo health.

You Know Boomkins? they not only wear leather who is higher armor than cloth, but they have a +125% modifier to Armor not to speak of the ability to shift in bear for a % mitigation.

Having 10%(20% in pvp) more stamina don’t look that insane anymore right?

Does Warlock have more of those effects as it also have Soul Leech and Destro have a mitigation mastery while Demo have Soul Link? yes it does.

But it don’t have Immunes like Ice Block, or the ability to go invisible or steal magic effects from others, or Freezing/Root Effects like Frost Nova or Mass Entanglement.

Back when we had Health cost effects in some spells those healings and defensives used to be stronger, Soul Link existed for all 3 warlocks, Demon Armor existed baseline and offered a 10% mitigation on top of more healing modifier.

As we no longer had health cost spells they reduced those, but warlock is still the caster whos identity is not having as having more limited/telegraphed kiting tools while being tankier in return.

So to make the long story short, its differences in the tool kit given to each class.

Big talk coming from a class that can cheese most mechanics by pressing Dark Pact.


QQ more!..complains over there--------------->trash

Yes, before in Legion blizzard wanted to make Warlocks tanky casters over being mobile. They took the mobility away and made them mega beefy. This resulted in, unless it was a 1 shot mechanic, you literally didn’t have to move for any mechanic, especially as Affliction since your filler spell healed, too, and for ridiculous amounts all due to how many damage modifiers the weapon had in it.

Before then, Warlocks were tanky/beefy because they had to sacrifice their HP to get mana back. Mages could Evo or whatever, had mana gems, etc. Warlocks had to sacrifice their own HP to get it back, so they needed the boost there, too.


Ah, did they remove blink and ice block when I wasn’t looking?

ice block out of here

No, but you have Passive shields, increased HP, Dark Pact (hands down the overall best defensive ability in the game right now), Unendening Resolve, A teleport you can put wherever you want, gateway for the whole group, mortal coil heal, and healthstones for the group.

As a Warlock main this patch, their defensive toolkit is absolutely crazy. The only type of person that could find something to complain about Locks’ defensively are Warlock mains that don’t play other classes/suck at other classes. Trust me, every other class see’s how tanky and how much damage Locks do right now.

The teleport requires you to first get there to drop it, unlike Blink where you just face the direction or blink in the direction you want to go. It’s also a 30 second CD, 1 charge compared to Blink’s 20 second recharge and could be 2 uses of it, too.

2 minute CD, so relevant very very rarely but yeah when used it’s nice.

Healthstones are eh, they can only heal once per fight, period. While nice as an “oh no” moment, and still something cool and desirable, it’s still alright.

Dark Pact is actually not the best defensive in the game, even now. I would argue something with a permanent damage immune is actually better, however, to each their own. Passive shields are nice, yeah, and the increased HP are because we are not as mobile as the others. If you take Burning Rush, then we are more mobile, but then you do not have much of the shields plus your mobility comes at the cost of HP.

I agree it is pretty crazy, I just wish I could move my Demonic Circle anywhere in 20 yards without literally having to go over to that spot to drop it, much like how Venthyr can do their teleport thing with a circle.

No, it’s people who understand very well and very clearly that not every toolkit is perfect and people that say Warlock’s toolkit is perfect or amazing is also very jealous.

They are beefy, they aren’t mobile. They are mobile, they aren’t beefy. You have a tradeoff to make in terms of this, whereas Mages you get to be both beefy and mobile. If you think the Mage’s shields, like the Ice Shield thing for Frost, for example, is worse than Warlock bubbles, not really. You have a legendary that literally grants you all 3 shields at once.

Every other class also sees how slow Warlocks move right now in exchange for their tankiness, which was the whole point. You give up mobility in exchange for tankiness, or you have mobility and no tankiness.

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You act like this is difficult.

2 minutes is ~every other pull in higher M+ keys. A 2 minute CD is relevant very often. 1 minute CD Dark Pact is the best defensive in the game.

I’d love have healthstones all the time on my Shaman.

Many top players would strongly disagree with you.

Everybody is jealous of Warlock’s defensively and offensively right now. Yet somehow, Warlock mains still think they’re getting the short end of the stick.

You realize that as a Shaman player with a terrible casted heal and 1 defensive CD, Warlock’s kit looks like Superman. I’m playing Warlock this patch and hate how objectively better they are across the board.

Soul Shape makes up the difference. You don’t need to teleport that often, but between Soul Shape and personal port, you have P L E N T Y of mobility. This is coming from a 3200 Lock this season.

Not saying it’s difficult, we aren’t rating things on how easy they are or difficult. Stop trying to push your goalpost.

2 minutes is not every other pull, but if you want to go there, we can. Other classes and specs have the same things, on shorter CD, less impactful though but still on shorter CD. When you factor things into account for a 2 minute CD timer, they become around equal.

Dark Pact isn’t going to prevent you being 1 shot. An immunity will. Literally this makes Dark Pact, in this instance, useless and not the best defensive.

Because your class is weak and I get it, I understand the plight of the Shamans. However, coming from Druids, from Paladins, from DHs, etc. The other classes have things that are better. Shamans may not, and I understand this contention with your class, but not all classes are the same.

I would love a constant ability to hit Hero/Lust/Timewarp on my Warlock at full power at any and all times, too. Can’t do that, though.

No, they wouldn’t as the thing I just said to you before this negates that entire argument, completely. It’s a very good defensive, no arguments against or for that. The argument is about it being the best defensive in the game and no, again against a 1 shot mechanic doing 5 times your HP, it’s literally useless because it’s not going to stop you from dying.

No, Warlocks understand this and tell you their stuff comes at a tradeoff of their mobility. You guys forego your mobility wanting more tankiness. Also, this depends on what area you’re talking about, too, as PvP they aren’t even remotely close to tanky, not even Demo nor Destro. PvE yeah, they are, but they’re slow af.

I agree, Shamans need a boost to their survival. A lot of people understand this, and tell blizz this too, and blizz doesn’t do enough for your class defensively speaking.

Across the board is not how everyone sees things, in fact, most players don’t do more than 1, maybe 2 types of content. Like PvE or PvP, not both. So across the board doesn’t pertain to them and is irrelevant.

Ah, so borrowed power making up the difference, and only on a single covenant, mind you, makes the argument. It’s a shame Shamans can’t do something like Necrolord for the bubble to give them a defensive option.

So, too, do other classes. They have the option to be Necrolord, they have the option to be whatever covenant they want. They have options, too.

I’m not moving the goal posts, I’m not accepting your argument that because you have to pre-place the teleport it makes it somehow more or less balanced. I’ve never had an issue putting my Warlock’s personal portal down. It’s a complete non-issue. This spell is very, very good. There are no moving goal posts. That’s it.

On anything above a 22, yes. It’s definitely not 2 minutes between packs on the 15s/16s you do.

You’re also not understanding that Unending Resolve is far from the only defensive option a Warlock has. It’s 1 of many things you can press and it’s available every other pull. Hell, you can even use it to immune interrupts and silences if you use it well.

Yes it will man. It absolutely will. It’s almost like you don’t even play this class.

I’ll trade you the ability to be in charge of pressing lust at the pre-chosen spot for the ability to battle rez on demand.

I mained Warlock for years and I main it this patch. I’m very aware of how strong their kit is. I decided to respond to this on my Warlock so you stop using the “us Warlock mains know better” argument.

I’m focused on PvE here. You can deal with Warlocks in arena, I’m not concerned about that.

Your covenant isn’t an option. Warlocks are fortunate enough that their BiS damage setup gives them a blink and cheat death.

So, taking 500k damage Dark Pact, at our item levels, with our Health, since everyone’s running around with 60-90k HP, let’s just say 100k to make it even. So taking a hit for 500k it will stop you from being 1 shot? Because if so, that’s very good. Dark Pact+UR will not stop you from dying if you take a high enough damage shot. Now, yes, if the hit’s going to do 150k damage or something, then sure it can def stop you from dying there between DP+UR or DP+SL and then your full HP you will barely survive it yeah.

Your battle rez is a 3 second cast time. By the time you get it off, they have to wait because mechanics already happened or are happening as you get it off. The DK or Druid Brez sure, those are instant up to 1.5 second cast times, tops, but the Warlock one is a 3 second cast time. It’s better than nothing but it’s so absurd trying to get that thing off without mechanics happening to you before or at the time of succeeding.

Cool, and I mained my Warlock for years as well and still main it even now. My other main was Druid, it was 50/50 and I always kept both of them up to equal gearing, just swapped depending on whatever my groups needed, be it tank, heals or DPS.

Fair enough, PvE yeah it’s better and PvP they’re omegasquish.

Covenants are always an option unless you’re doing top end stuff like top 100 world mythic raiding, pushing 26+ keys, doing 2.2k+ rating.

the whiney shaman still in here trying to whine about warlocks?