I don’t think Sylvanas became a hero again. She’s more being treated like a criminal.
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<3 you are my favorite wolfie.
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With very good lawyers too
Ill take that as a compliment.
I was talking about Uther here and somewhat Tyrande.
You know Blizzard making the victim the champion of the villain is just 
perfection.
The Sylvanas fans though range from the victims deserved it or the sylvanas did nothing wrong train to its no big deal, don’t worry about it! Not very good defense lawyers at all.
That was obvious, I was poking fun.
Its fitting that you use the word “range” here, even though I don’t think you meant to, because there is a bunch of arguments that fall on that scale.
Well its what happened.
Sylvanas fans trying to minimize what she has done in any which way they can.
They deserved it, its their own fault that they died, actually not that many died and etc and etc. You yourself compared the purge to teldrassil which is laughable but good effort I guess?
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I would love to meet these Sylvanas fans you keep talking about, I have not met them.
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This one just walked right by. couldn’t have missed her.
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I have heard that a lot of men have Sylvanas as their Waifu (I believe that is the right term). That category is correct cause those men will likely enjoy the book. Of course I take the category to mean it is an adventure book meant to appeal to men. Not that the Main Character/POV Character(s) is male.
Of course it should have some more categories.
I wonder why only three. Is there some sort of limit imposed by booksellers?
To clarify, I dont think that the writing is properly executing the spirit of warcraft. I have repeatedly argued that Sylvanas is objectively villainous and shouldn’t be painted otherwise. While some have called for a Sylvanas redemption, I have declared my desire for a Sylvanas vindication… a self actualization for Sylvanas and the Forsaken so that they continue to act (wrongly) on the darker side of grey.
My complaints about an AGW retcon are mostly that it distracts from the Old Soldier commentary by turning the entire narrative into a commentary about authoritarians, the people they manipulate and the complete lack of subtlety that “genocide” ensures in any narrative in which it is included. The corrupting power of war is drowned out by a message about divisive and dangerous politicians with alterior motives and the profiteering capitalists behind them, and the horde being expected to carry that entire burden alone.
The point I was making about the purge isnt that it is the same, but rather that it is written differently, and in a way that is more in line with the traditional message of WoW. By comparing the Purge to Teldrassil, I hoped to point out how Teldrassil could have been done better, still been the impetus for faction conflict, still caused Sylvanas to feel the need to abandon the horde and not force Sylvanas fans to feel guilt for hand waving a portrayal of Sylvanas they didnt like. In other words, Purge good. Teldrassil bad.
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Because they only really exist in the minds of twisted boys who have a problem seperating video game characters from their real life feelings of inadequacy.
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Thus far I can confidently say I regret not getting an audiobook.
I routinely forget how incomprehensible fantasy names and elven ones especially are. Always a ten car pile up of vowels. Reminds me of that meme with the lady in front a chalkboard full of ridiculously spelled baby names.
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What’re you even talking about, Bene??
Althulaurivaaliseenia is a perfectly pronounceable name.
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Ha! I don’t need to rely on roided-out or silicon-injected ‘video game characters’ to feel inadequate in real life! Real life itself is enough for that!
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Jung’s Devouring Mother has a tendency to inspire Oedipus Complex in men with rough childhood experiences.
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I rely on those things for an altogether different purpose!
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A vindication would imply everything she did was correct all along.
How do you reconcile that with this statement?
They are mutually exclusive. If Sylvanas is objectively the villain she CANT be vindicated. She won’t be a villain if she is vindicated.
I mean yeah sure that could have been the element the story was telling but this is Saurfang we are talking about. His history with war and his many, many, many crimes in the past kind of make it insane the guy would go along with “lets attack before they attack” as some sort of a great idea. The story failed at its very inception.
That is not at all what it came accross as, we can go back and check the conversation. It really was like you were make a direct comparison between the two.
Horde did Teldrassil. Jaina did Purge. Its the same! See jaina gets away but Sylvanas is punished.
Even though Sylvanas isn’t being punished for teldrassil, she specifically only being punished for sending people to super hell. But thats a different topic.
I am guessing Alynsa called me inadequate?
I followed this quote, which has been taken out of context, by declaring it to be a reference to Sylvanas’ sense of self. Self actualization for her and the forsaken.
Villains feel vindication all the time. It is an important tool for giving a recurring villain depth. Thanos felt vindicated in his desire to irradicate half the universe.
Thats just like— your opinion, man.
I was. This is not offering equivalency.
By pointing out the comparisons, I assumed it would be easy to see that on paper the events vould have been regarded very similarly. Both were grievous human rights violations. Both perpetuated the cycle of hatred, if you don’t want to take my word for it, ask Varian, who loudly lamented that Jaina had driven the blood elves back to the horde. There are key differences, and since these are fictional events, those differences are the fault (imo) of the writers. That is why I criticize referring to Teldrassil as a genocide. This isnt a criticism of fans, but a criticism of writers. I do not blame you for calling it a genocide. That is exactly how Golden referred to it. But if it is to be a positive part of this franchise it cant be that black and white. It has to be more like the purge. People who don’t want to see Teldrassil denied don’t want to entertain that there could have been any other way to tell that story. That’s not a productive way to have a discussion that amounts to little more than a comparison of the writing of two potentially similar narrative events.
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I think perhaps we have a misunderstanding happening here. Because I am getting conflicting messaging from you.
Vindication means to be cleared of blame.
It means to be proved right. Thanos was not afforded any of this, maybe you are looking for another word? Because whatever it is vindication is not the correct one.
Saurfang is the guy who has nightmares of slaughtering babies with his own hands.
He is shown to be tortured by it and yet he happily jumps at a chance of killing the guy that brought down Archimond and the Night Elves? Why? Because of Sylvanas’ silver tongue?
One was a kingdom’s leader running around arresting people belonging to a political group that was directly responsible for a bad action.
The other is a faction, pre-emptively, without provocation attacking another faction, specifically a group who have very little history of attacking the aggressors to hold them hostage indefinitely to guarentee peace via oppression of others.
Then instead of following that plan they decided to just funnel them to a singular location and then kill as many as they could first chance they get in one shot.
These events are not comparable. The scale is completely different, the situation is completely different, the messaging about a “cycle” of hatred does not exist because this cycle is being pushed exclusively by only ONE side. The other side does not participate in it. I am not “outraged” because Golden called it a genocide. The word could have not been mentioned at all and it would still be an apt description of what actually happened.