I got momentarily excited that the Scourge was raising the dead of Quel’thalas and turning them into monstrosities but nope, just a rando mob with a slight letter difference.
It’s like having a human ghost in Glineas named “Lian”
So I am deliberately changing my opinion to be counter to yours to… make you angry? Is that what you think is happening here?
I’ll defend Sylvanas this much: she has been badly written; it took a downturn in Cata, and a nosedive in BFA. I never played past the intro stage of WC3 with Thrall killing murlocs, I’m complete #### at RTS games, so I never ‘met’ non-evil/non-undead Sylvanas. I played the Forsaken intro zones a couple of times in early WoW, trying to get into them, their story, their aesthetic. It just never happened, never clicked. So to me, Sylvanas has always been the B*tchy Evil Aunt of the Horde Family- no one likes her, we just suck up to her cause she’s rich or something.
But she was still understandable. She was rightly filled with rage, but needed to constantly keep herself under control as a ruler so she could put the well-being of her nation above moments of petty spite. In this, she was very much one of her people despite the racial differences. Her goal was laudable- get revenge on the Lich King, a being who posed a clear and present danger to not only herself but everyone else. Her means?.. Errrrr…
Unfortunately, the keyword here being ‘was’.
9 Likes
I mean, what do you expect from certain people who conflate video game violence to their real world feelings of persecution?
Of course they want sadistic revenge fantasies acted out.
2 Likes
…would that be the Night elf fans or Sylvanas fans then?
2 Likes
Yes.
10char
1 Like
Sylvanas fans recognize in majority that our problems stem from the abject failure and incompetence of the writers.
My beef is not really with the Alliance players, who as we see here somehow majority want to take this Lava Eel Vore narrative seriously.
NEFPAs think that their issues can be resolved in-game and that the Horde Player and Horde Fantasy must be crushed and made miserable. They don’t care to acknowledge that their suffering is due to the abject failure and incompetence of the writers.
I am disappointed with this entire arc because surviving trying to kill yourself is a rarely shown narrative. Sylvanas was one of the few examples of that across all popular media.
The writers have failed us.
But people like *gestures around * think that the writers shouldn’t be held accountable for their failure, don’t think that both factional fantasies need to be upheld, good and bad.
Because they believe WC3 was a mistake and thus they want Lawful Good Alliance and Chaotic Evil Horde.
They ultimately agree with Afrasiabi’s vision for the game that Ion, Golden, and others seemingly accepted for an extended period of time and are only pivoting in the wake of his leaving for reasons that escape me.
It’s all banal.
It’s all just Lava Eel Vore.
23 Likes
I am wounded, wounded I say.
3 Likes
WoW is currently in its Darkest Night. Lava Eel Vore may not be the Hero We Deserve, but it’s the Hero We Need.
EDIT: Also is it just me, or are the writers coming off as two-faced fallen heroes seemingly making narrative decisions based off of coin flips?
8 Likes
The writers would be actually held accountable by actually addressing all their plot points and explain clearly with logic why some rules apply to Sylvanas and none one else.
Why Sylvanas fixing ONE single sin for half a dozen actually makes sense.
Why the Horde’s constant flirtation with unapologetic evil is excused by “being misunderstood”.
Instead from my experience some players here I can only describe as Horde fans or Sylvanas fans readily and gladly accept what the writers feed them and cheer when the other side feels wanting.
6 Likes
That’s an indicator of multiple people being involved in the writing, to me.
You’re right, the line should have been declaratively cleaned up: “She rode up and down the ranks, inspecting her troops…”
Probably a scene talked about in a “story-session”, and that discussion never really got refined into being truly in the story. So, it’s not in the story, it’s what they said about the story.
4 Likes
You are still hung up on Sylvanas fans making you upset huh.
Poor bby.
Do you find my happiness offensive still?
My theory is that there were Three Sylvanas Pivots:
- Plan A = Everyone Is Fascist, Especially Sylvanas
This was Afrasiabi’s plan, and how the start of BFA played out that Metzen was shocked/surprised by. This was what led to the “Concentration Camps” in Beta that never made it to live. This was why Golden wrote that Sylvanas forces the Undead to take up new Forsaken Names and forbids using their “Living” Names. This was the Humans immolating Vulpera alive.
But here comes pivot one:
- Plan B = Double Predestination, Sylvanas Was Right
I suspect that at one point, the Maw (and thus Eternal Damnation) was going to be revealed to be an invention of the Eternal Ones to imprison Zovaal. Eternal Damnation was NOT part of the First One’s plans.
But in order to guarantee that souls would keep going to Hell in order to keep fueling Torghast (and thus Zovaal’s prison), the Primus used Domination Runes to guarantee that some people would be born to be damned.
That’s why the Loom of Fate exists.
But this plot justifies genocide, and thus pivot 2:
- Plan C = Evil Sylvanas vs Good Sylvanas, Soul Shards
Fundamentally speaking, if you lack fullness of agency you lack fullness of guilt.
This applies both theologically, whereupon the three requirement to have committed a mortal sin (and thus damns you) is: Grave (Life Altering) Matter, KNOWING it is Grave Matter, and having FULL Autonomy/Consent in doing the Sin, and also legally, whereupon “insanity” pleas exist and likewise people with mental/psychological disabilities (eg some forms of autism, Alzheimer’s, etc) removes culpability from the person.
If you are magically wounded by a magical sword that permanently magically robs a piece of your soul that permanently affects your perception of reality and you DO NOT have the agency or possibility to heal and have fullness of self thereafter, you do not have full agency.
But again, this runs into the problem of “excusing” genocide, and so Danuser decided to push that somehow Soul Shards don’t affect agency.
Which makes absolutely no sense on ANY level.
And this robs the Sylvanas we knew of agency as a Survivor.
So we get to pivot 3:
- Plan D = Sylvanas Christ and the Harrowing of Hell-Maw due to Lava Eel Vore
Sylvanas’s actions for the past four years are now justified canonically because a flying viking woman showed her Lava Eel Vore that convinced her Zovaal is Family Friendly and thus Genocide Is Okay, and it took the Blonde Blue Eyed White Twinkadin to make her realize the error of her ways because she reminds her of her little brother who was killed by Orcs that she always hated and aforementioned Twinkadin had a VERY hard life with a distant father (retconing established Good Father/Son Relationship they had except briefly in MOP).
But various Alliance mains in this thread expect us to argue in-universe and take this nonsense seriously rather than apply pressure and call to hold the writers accountable or at least demonstrate contrition.
12 Likes
I feel like this should have been the title to her book. That’s so accurate it hurts.
On a serious note, she’s just a workaholic who instead of dealing with her crippling grief, became a fascist Ranger-General… no biggie.
6 Likes
Honestly it’s the level of Deep Complex Nuanced Political Thought I expect from a bunch of liberals who refuse to support even unionization efforts.
9 Likes
No I am referencing the time where you and Micah were openly saying how you were looking forward to all the unhappy people that would be disappointed with Sylvanas getting a vindication and redemption.
You accuse me of trolling but thats what you are doing now.
Baal vaguely gestures that some people want some fans here to be crushed and feel miserable yet its the Sylvanas fan here to advertises here that this is what they want to see.
5 Likes
Direct y’all’s anger to the writers.
It is their fault.
They have failed everyone and everything in every capacity in every instance for the past four (arguably six) years.
This book is genuinely an unprecedented flaming disaster attempting to douse years of ever-escalating flaming disasters.
20 Likes
This story, resorting to smoldering phallic symbols that consume each other… has definitely been an impressive attempt at compounding error.
8 Likes
it is sort of the poster child for “this seemed like a good idea in my head.”
7 Likes
I mean, that is exactly what happened.
CDev has mentioned Arthas as an “evil paladin”. Years ago. I even forget how Arthas fans spin themselves around to argue against it, CDev out right stated as such years ago. And they still act blind sided.
11 Likes