Warcraft: Sylvanas spoilers

You seem like a smart reader so I’m inclined to believe you. This is the wildest sentence I’ve read here. the book is arriving for me today so I’ll let you know if I had the same impression. I kinda hope that’s not the case though. :slightly_frowning_face:

Edit: Okay, read the passage.

“I shall make you dance”, “Do you miss touch,” “When the blood flowed” and “Do you know who is minding your corpse” heavily imply assault. Yes, it is never explicitly stated, but I don’t think it needs to be.

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Okay so everyone who reads the book agrees with this reading, except Ainhin, Smallz and that guy who harrassed Baal on multiple alts.

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The thing they all have in common? They all use some variation of the What about the men? talking point :wolf:

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I guess it could be.

But is there a reason Sylvanas, who had already put together somethings up because weirdly Varimathras is actually not that good of a liar, has to follow a Dreadlord and Dreadguards who are wearing face coverings for no discernable reason into an obvious trap?

Seriously between power sliding at Arthas and allowing herself to get caught in a small room Sylvanas just is not a good MM Hunter.

It’s just a very strange scene.

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Until now we were told that being risen and that loss of control by Sylvanas was SA allegory.

Now since that would make Sylvanas a therapist as well since she did the same thing to Delaryn and Andiun by raising one as undead because she was annoying her and of course andiun getting held in captivity until forced to comply against their will. We are now moving the goal posts so that she isn’t guilty of being a therapist.

So now if what happened to Sylvanas is not an allegory but actually physical. So… where is the evidence? Why is Sylvanas not guilty of the same thing Arthas is?
Its not real if a woman does it?

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I’d say it’s barely allegorical.

Arthas takes immense sadistic pleasure in physically and mentally abusing a woman because she had the ‘audacity’ to resist him. He deliberately leaves her corpse with a leering pervert just to see her spectral skin crawl.

It’s about as subtle as an artillery salvo.

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So the argument is soley based on how “creepy” the situation is?

What if the Andiun situation was switched up with Nathanos (lets assume he survived) as the captor and Jaina as the prisoner. Would it be an SA allegory then?
If Sylvanas is guilty of the same things as Arthas did then why all this pretzel bending to say she is innocent and unblemished and her victims are not true victims? That is baffling to me.

You appear to be the only one harboring that opinion. Nobody is suggesting Sylvanas is some blameless innocent.

What we are suggesting is that unless you have the media literacy skills of a tuna, it’s not hard to see the allegory at play here.

Nobody’s delighting in watching Anduin squirm. Sylvanas doesn’t leave his corpse with somebody who at best is just doing stuff to himself while looking at it.

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Except sylvanas didn’t rape or assault anyone. Really weird you and aihn keep making these false statements :wolf:

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Oh for this specific crime? Absolutely, you are saying she is innocent of it.
And you didn’t answer my question about the Nathanos and Jaina situation.

I am just saying there is a double standard. If the SA allegory is now more explicity and undeniable for Sylvanas? Alright no problem that is now canon and you have my full agreement.

But now we see Sylvanas parralleled Arthas. She even literally says she became him.
So why are you guys saying what she did doesn’t count like Arthas did? Why minimize her actions? She is off in hell trying to make amends for many many crimes so why not this too?

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Arthas for sure did some messed up stuff to Sylvanas, up and beyond the level they are permitted to detail.

While for sure Dar’Khan was leering at her I do not think he did anything to her really as she was sealed in iron by Arthas and he seems too possessive to hand over the keys or allow others to do anything to what he saw as his toy. He left her body there just because Arthas is a terrible person, and knew it would upset her immensely.

Because context is a thing. Themes are a thing. Allegories are a thing.

If Sylvanas was just getting immensely satisfied by Anduin writhing under her thumb because he tried to resist her, then yeah thered be some similarities there.

Frostmourne penetrating Sylvanas is not the allegory. Plenty of people get stabbed here. The allegory is Arthas replete with obscene joy over seeing this person who stood up to him suffer in an immensely personal way.

And then, in case it was still going everyone’s heads, we throw Dar’Khan in the mix who is described as starring at Sylvanas as if she’s a meal to be devoured.

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Alright, I understand your argument now and I am not dismissing it and I doubt you would be convinced of my position.

For me the actions are the same. When we watched Sylvanas turn Delaryns head towards Teldrassil so she can watch her people burn it was all about power. All about seeing despair in others and taking pleasure in it.

Arthas was the same but he had a lust element to it. For Andiun it was to accomplish a goal and a need for Sylvanas.
Its the same crime and deserves the same condemnation, the abused became the abuser kind of situation and its no excuse.

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Everything about Teldrassil remains baffling frankly. As it was a marketing stunt that had no other purpose in the story.

Nobody’s saying this story isn’t extraordinarily dumb. But that allegory was already there in the Arthas novel. And here it borderline becomes fantasy I Spit On Your Grave.

Which for the record is a baffling decision. Because we’re at absurd cartoon evil and then we veer into a more personal, visceral evil. A ghost screaming so loud all the babies and painters die is fantasy shlock. A guy tormenting a woman because he has power over her and she can’t really do anything about on the otherhand is why Blizzard is currently being sued.

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I fully agree there which is why whenever the writers show me double standards I am hyper critical of it. I refuse to accept their BS.

They should not be able to keep their cake and eat it too.

Yes, you missed the passage below.

This is the person Arthas is gloating about minding her body:

Though Lor’themar was fond of Dar’Khan, something about him rubbed Sylvanas the wrong way. She did not like how he looked at her, eyes glowing, perfect features in shadow beneath the sweeping brim of his hat. It was one thing to be found attractive; it was another to be regarded as a meal to be devoured.

It feels like Golden is very blatant.

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I can’t fathom what compelled her to un-allegorize this while also writing the second worst presentation of suicide I’ve ever seen (first being 13 Reasons Why).

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So it’s Arthas taking sadistic pleasure while under the influence of a cursed sword and evil/corrupted soul (whatever Nerh’zul is supposed to be)

Vs

Sylvanas having zero empathy while putting others through her abuse, despite having free will

I know you’re “not like the other fans”, but you can see why someone would take issue with this right?

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I’m kinda wondering how she came back. Because Zooval warns her the passage of time is wonky in the Shadowlands so she could easily come back to now skeletal remains if she lingers too long.

But uh. She leapt off one of the tallest points in Azeroth, hit terminal velocity and then slammed right into saronite spikes.

So shouldn’t her corpse be the sort of thing you could spread on toast at this point? Idk maybe the valkyr… well if they slowed her fall she wouldn’t have died so…

Man. The more you think about it the worse it gets.

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Benedikt the writers tried to say the Shadowlands is a closed energy system when the Maw exists as a net cosmic energy loss🙃

They don’t understand physics or metaphysics or history or cultural formation or anything :upside_down_face:

They’re all stuck in the toe-deep narrative standards of the 90s :upside_down_face:

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