I’m mainly just arguing against the theory/someone’s unitary decision to say that Sylvanas was behind the whole of that attack, not just the making of the plague to use on Arthas. Her using it on Arthas and not particularly caring if there was collateral damage is one thing. The idea that she orchestrated it as an attack on the Horde and Alliance forces is another that didn’t make sense for her character. That’s all.
It makes a lot of sense. The Forsaken numbers were quite low until Wrath. If ever the living (like Varian) decided to launch an attack against them, they had to be prepared and had to minimize losses of their own forces.
The blight was a weapon against both the Scourge and any imminent attacks by the living. We see how often it’s used even after the Wrathgate, against the living.
But it’s not like the Forsaken are immune to it, so it’s probably not the best long term solution.
Edit: might’ve misunderstood your comment, if you mean it should’ve been tested on the Scourge… well they did. Both in Tirisfal and later in Northrend. But they also made it effective against the living.
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Arthas was living after all despite lacking a Soul.
I really think Teldrassil was (in retrospect unwisely) intended to come across as Sylvanas as usual… but on steroids. It was supposed to be shocking, and horrible, but not Godwins Law horrible.
I think that it was never supposed to be forgivable, but explainable— that getting from A (teldrassil) to D (freeing Zovaal to act as an ally against the Jailer who was the primus who was responsible for everything) would make sense provided we had the information provided by B (original Azshara plot maybe?) and C (a revelation that breaking the helm of domination would free Zovaal.)
The backlash to Teldrassil was likely unexpected, which is one of the reasons I think it was never supposed to be characterized as a “genocide” and that was an oversight by cdev which cost them dearly. It was supposed to be an unforgivable and tragic warcrime, and AGWs narrative managed to communicate that just fine. I think the backlash is why they rewrote and redirected the narrative, lest they be accused of trying to justify genocide. That would have been particularly bad optics amidst their dubious relationship with the Chinese government which was the front and center controversy of BfA.
I genuinely believe that the original narrative was something like this…
The Valkyr introduced Sylvanas to Helya who made a deal with Sylvanas to help her free Zovaal, and in turn Helya would help her —with Zovaal— undo everything that happened to her and “her people”. Sylvanas learned through Helya and eventually Zovaal, about the Primus, and the source of the scourge, and the scheming and power struggles in the Shadowlands, and how the machine of death was broken. That Zovaal was imprisoned in the Maw, but the primus was spreading domination across the cosmos, through the Nathrezim who were infiltrating cosmic powers on all planes. Sylvanas, due to her general mental illness, slowly became obsessed more and more with undoing her own tragedies, looking back at every sadness in her life and seeing it as a wrong the universe had done her. Thats what we were originally meant to understand about Sylvanas with this book… her own delusions about what the 5d chess would accomplish. And Sylvanas had also become privvy to the fact that the Titans werent necessarily good, and then therefore that the Void wasnt necessarily evil… that the whole universe was grey, and every cosmic force had someone who wanted to control it or destroy it. The horde in that light is “nothing”. The old gods are “nothing”. The Legion is nothing, compared to the man behind the Nathrezim manipulating them in the first place. That strategic genius, and madman, was the Primus and he needed to be stopped, so everything bad could be erased.
Bur thats just speculation.
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Well, the TTRPG had a LOT about undead and undeath in general.
Basically it makes every emotion and thought the negative version. Love would be obsession, for example. Undeath turns you hateful, spiteful, vengeful. Forsaken in vanilla dont just not care that their living spouse moved on… they hate her for it, and they hate her stupid living lover.
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There is absolutely no way whatsoever the Jailer was planned in BfA. There’s too many contradictions between BfA and Shadowlands, like all the ghosts just sticking around in BfA zones instead of being sucked into the Maw, and the Warbringers short depicting the burning as a spur of the moment decision to spite Delaryn instead of part of the plan.
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The jailer as we know him? No way. Not a chance. Zovaal locked on the runecarvers oubilette waiting for someone to shatter the veil and break him out? Yeah… I could see it. I could even see the real reason for the war being to distract us from looking North and noticing Sylvanas besieging Icecrown with enough time to stop her.
I’d figure if this whole “plan” existed back then Sylvanas probably would have gone all Stalingrad and had the UC civilians required to stay in the city and not evacuate everyone.
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Also she was constantly raising undead (Lordaeron, Darkshore, Zelling and Derek) even though doing that would mean they weren’t going to the Maw to power the Jailer. Directly the opposite of her supposed goal.
None of it matches. It was all made up afterward.
Reminder of the very first thing Sylvanas says after she burns the tree in the final War of Thorns quest:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Killer_Queen
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: When I sent you on this mission, I did not foresee this outcome.
But the claim since Shadowlands has been that it was all part of The Plan.
There was no plan in the writer’s room.
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Yeah… i dont think the war had anything to do with sending souls to the maw… thats stupid and blizzard thinks we’re stupid to buy it.
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Even the warbringers cinematic which plays before she says that seems to imply that burning Teldrassil was a knee-jerk reaction to her failing to break Summermoon.
but no. it was “all part of the plan”.
So you end up having the ingame dialogue and the cinematic pointing towards it being a reaction to Summermoon refusing to give up hope.
Then you have the tie in mini novels and later Shadowlands saying Burning Teldrassil was “part of the plan”. We just didn’t know what plan until Shadowlands.
It is like Gilneas all over again.
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If I were a soul caretaker who got screwed over because of Sylvanas’ actions, I’d be less about going to the Maw to help her, and more about going to the Maw and hunting her down with a baseball bat. I’d say that once they’re done cleaning up their regional messes, they’re fine to just lay at the metaphorical beach for a bit listening to ‘If You Like Pina Coladas’.
Patty is great but the way she pronounces Scourge as “Skowrge” is making me do double takes.
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It isn’t even about Sylvanas, really. Those souls have a rightful place and the realms need anima. We just supposed to let gramgram languish in Hell for 3,126 more years to spite the shriekygurl?
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it depends. did gramgram blow smoke in our faces as little kids, pinch our cheeks too hard even when we said no, and only have that awful ribbon candy that sits around in bowls exposed to the open air forever?
Nope, just sat on the porch minding her own business with a big ole chaw in.
Time works weird in the shadowlands, as it is an abstract dream-like thing there. Plus, souls are flowing properly now, and with them anima. The additional Anima from souls plucked from the Maw, judged, and then sent on will just be gravy at this point.
Too much copium.the word genocide was used since 8.0, even ingame quests used it.
This genocidestory was intended
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I suspect that originally team Danuser was more angling for “Ethnic cleansing of the Kaldorei through forced expulsion from Kalimdor” (which is wretched in its own way) but in the end the way more brutal genocide interpretation that team Afrasiabi promoted was what came across.
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They walked that back. Time flows the same, they just don’t care in the Shadowlands, apparently.
Ardenweald is very much an energy goes in → sustain ecosystem → energy goes out/rebirth. That’s a zero sum anima situation, which you can’t just add or substract from and maintain the status quo.
Even if all of the above can be handwaved (which is what they intend, I’m assuming) you’re still left with souls suffering/languishing in Hell needlessly.
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