Problem with this argument is that Sylvanas has a history of unscrupulous acts, tactics and betrayals. So the alliance has to treat her as if she is always upto no good cause she generally is.
Except in this analogy she has already robbed a few other stores before showing up to this one. so the cop would be doing his job by arrest her.
Years later? Huh???
Do you think the Eyir thing was the ONLY reason people had to go after Sylvanas?!
First off, the treaty was broken with Ashran, donât care if people say its not canon, it is so lets get that out of the way.
Lastly, Alliance trying to kill Sylvanas after being appointed supreme leader is not the issue with the story. The issue with the story is Horde NOT trying to kill her. Sylvanas would with her history would not have lasted 2 days in office, Legion invasion or not.
No Stormhiem, No 4th war, none of it. I am sorry but Horde would have never accepted her as leader. But, thatâs the hand we were given so I guess its all anyone will talk about forever more, despite all the cool Dragons and stuff going on right now.
THis is the one thing that truly bugged me about the story, Loa whispers or not there should be no way the other leaders should have let her step in as warchief. She should have been stopped right away by all the other leaders.
Should of been like âvolâjin was just delerious from the poison and was obviously hearing things, No way in hell we are letting you take overâ
You both act as if the Horde has been written as a Faction since Cata? Which it hasnât. Or that Jinâs death, and being turned into Nerâzhul to force Sylvanas into the drivers seat, is any different than how Cairne/Thrall were used with Garrosh? Which its not. It also was just SO much easier to default back to âGood Race/Evil Raceâ themes. That way the Horde doesnât need luxuries like means or motive to attack the Alliance. They just do.
Your not wrong, The writers simply got lazy and did the most basic laziest thing they could go with to get the story moving in the direction they wanted. Its the same way with DF where they just buired all the stories and characters they butchered under a rug and moved the story elsewhere (and 5 years into the future) cause they couldnât fix it.
Yeah, I noticed that so far. While there are good, but basic, elements to DF, Blizz is very heavy handed with their messaging of âWEâRE MOVING ON!â But, yâknow, in the laziest way imaginable. It was downright jarring to hear Lorâthemar just offhandedly mention âits been two years since our forces returned from the Shadowlandsâ. With the only things happening being the things no one cared about on the Horde side. Lorâthemar and Baine hooking up with Thaly and Mayla. Which, god I hate that these two have become such a crutch for Blizz to fall back on for, obvious, cheap and comfortable token Horde inclusion.
Even that only goes so far, because I still see a lot of understandable reactions of âwhy would alliance characters attend their wedding when they were aiding in Sylvanas just a few years ago?â I feel this kind of thing should take a generation to start to scab over, not something an MMO timeskip can believably pull off.
The best the game can hope for at this point is pretending everyone can see the emperorâs new clothes.
Or you knowâŠ
The Horde leaders could make some diplomatic amends, apologize⊠like a real apology, turn over the âbad hordeâ they arrested to the Alliance as a way to distance the good horde and bad horde who are the most responsible for all the terrible actions the Horde took.
Reconciliation first. Party later. Literally anything is better than nothing, and I know for some Horde players if the Horde is presented in any capacity besides hating or killing Alliance is somehow punishment but its the best path to fix things imo. I am sick and tired of Alliance characters just constantly being sad and angry with no real way of doing anything about it.
Then Blizzard stacks up even more things to be sad and angry about it on top of it.
Anyway I had said all this ad nauseam, my sub runs out in another 10 days and I donât think I will renew for a while, just busy with life and stuff. No time to play.
I might believe that was a deliberate plan if BfA in general and the WoT in particular werenât so riddled with inconsistencies. As it is, I think itâs just an accident.
Like, Small, I feel like youâre preaching to the choir here and you donât realize it? Weâre complaining about the same things. About how the time skip clearly is just there to try to sweep all the wreckage they created with BfA/SLs under a rug. And that extends not only to interfaction conflict/issues, but also internal faction issues. Blizz has taken the stance of âwe dont want to deal with it, so weâre moving on!â ⊠in the most jarring way imaginable. As a part of that, on the Horde side, its why the ONLY Horde characters or leaders we ever seem to interact with anymore are Baine, Lorâthemar, Thrall, and Calia. Blizzâs safe space âtoken good Hordeâsâ they default to, because they have no idea what they want to do with the Faction.
Funny what happens to a Player Faction on a writing level when you âlove writing the Hordeâ ⊠because you see it as a convenient plot device you can do anything you want with for 12+ years. Pretending that there would never be any consequences for that obscenely lazy writing. Same goes for the Alliance and Blizz never allowing them to ever truly act on their mountains of grievances, in any way that might tarnish their sterile Anduin shine.
I think we all agree what the problems are, and everyone has their own focus on the issue.
What I mostly go over is the solution to these problems, thatâs where the proverbial train tracks suddenly stop. Thatâs where these discussions grind to a halt.
Players: I wish âInsert Alliance Characterâ stop calling me names.
Ok! So lets have the Horde leaders make peace and amends with these Alliance characters so they arenât angry anymore and will stop calling you names because you are Horde.
Players: No no, that would shame me and my faction, why should I be punished?
⊠Ok so we are back to the current Blizzard solution where the story just moves along, addresses nothing for the next big shiny thing.
Players: Oh no thats just bad writing, Blizzard doesnât know how to write stories.
omg⊠what do you want then? That Alliance start killing Horde and its characters for some revenge plot?
Players: Oh no because thats just punishes me as a player by taking my things away.
WHAT DO YOU WANT?!
In summary this has been my experience on these forums.
And I think weâve both reached the consensus on this issue as well. Amends take time, work and require focus. But theyâre not âfunâ, ânewâ, or âoooh Dragonsâ. Blizzard would actually have to be willing to give the Horde attention outside of instances theyâre villain batting them. The absurd pendulum swings between âToo much of the wrong type of relevance, to use the Faction as a nonsensical plot deviceâ and âTotal irrelevancy, put the plot device back on the shelf till we want them to do something unhingedâ ⊠would need to stop.
In order to get any meaningful amends out of the Horde that wasnât just âcull whatâs left of their already laughably pathetic character rosterâ, the Horde would have be written as a Faction again. For the first time since WoTLK perhaps. But, its just so much easier for Blizz to try to just sweep all of that hard work theyâve created for themselves under a rug. Defaulting to something like DF ⊠and âooh, look, generic fantasy adventure!!!â While leaning on their âToken Good Hordeâ crutches, whoâve frankly lost all identity beyond those roles.
Speaking for myself, but Iâm sure others feel the same, but Iâm tired of the faction partisanship. For once in a Long time, itâs nice to just explore, craft, pvp or whatever suits your needs without having people on both sides screeching at each other that their side deserves this or that as compensation.
Iâm done with it all, bury it, put a stake in it and letâs move on to more DF style expansions.
I can see why certain Horde players would be hesitant to play through the âjustice and reparationsâ portion of BFA.
A non-insignificant amount of Horde players loathed BFAâs story and how it dumped such raw villainy onto the Hordeâs hands.
Some of those players rejoiced as they worked with Saurfang to undermine Sylvanas.
Others found even that grating.
Many of these players just want the whole thing in the past. And any resurgence of BFA would just be a reminder. âHey! Remember that horrible thing we made the Horde do? Remember how baaaaaaaad it was!?!â
I donât necessarily agree with that above opinion, but I do understand why people hold it. Iâve been a Horde fan for a good while. (A Forsaken fan at that lul) So Iâm familiar with those outlooks.
But I do think BFA needs some sort of sensible resolution.
But I donât think there is one that isnât going to be unfavorable to a significant chunk of players.
BFA was such a mess that I can see why people just want it forgotten.
it makes me wonder if, in-universe, the PCs actually have a reputation as completely amoral killing machines who can and have depopulated entire villages of natives and thrown themselves against gods for no greater motive than some coins and a shiny new ring.
In universe the PCs donât have any reputation at all. They have been both indispensable to the events of the world, yet total observers of it. No one remembers you. You have no connections. Youâll kill gods, but you are not a part of this world in any real sense within the story itself. Which means, that any âactsâ (Amoral or otherwise) that your characters commit are largely up to headcannon. Just as your characterâs attachments in the world are. With BfA especially really stepping on that freedom of âheadcannonâ for a lot of players.
Oh donât encourage the writers, they hinted and added flavored txt dialog here and there implying, saying and openly mocking the PC already in past expansions⊠next we will have our Leaders in a proper cinematic saying it to the whole faction⊠if they take this any further!
Your ongoing issue is that you insist on framing everything as Horde winning and Alliance losing instead of earnestly acknowledging that the same story serving up dogturd to Team Blue has been doing so to Team Red. I have yet to see any suggestions or solutions that would result in something other than a miserable experience for the faction with the majority of players.
And just to be clear, Iâm all for giving the Alliance some teeth again instead of being perpetual punching bags with DBZ power scaling faction leaders, but if it is going to further dilute Horde identity or foist a negative experience on Horde players (who had a negative experience in the same storylines that you did as Alliance) it is not gonna fly.
Not everyone kills gods though. I certainly donât. Iâve attended three normal raids in my lifetime that were mildly successful. And beyond that have only done LFR if the game is holding PvP at gunpoint over it.
So it would actually be quite weird for them to congratulate me for saving the day. I havenât. Iâve been telling my own story about a troubled Human Paladin trying to overcome his crippling addiction to being stabbed in the throat by me.
So I think the best solution actually came up in SL. Just have some NPCs have alternative dialogue if you have the corresponding achievements.
Iâm not a programmer so I donât know how difficult thatâd be. But Iâm not asking for like two separate cinematics depending on what you have or havenât done.
Just different text boxes and maybe if weâre really daring perhaps soldiers /salute you if youâve achieved officer rank in RBGs and hero characters react to you more personally if youâve some time sensitive Raid achievements.
Canonically you as an individual player do not exist. You are part of a faceless group in the profession of adventuring. That is why when something happens it isnât anyone is specific it is âa group of adventurersâ who did it.
So, for example, Razagath was killed by Kalecgos, Khadgar, and a band of adventurers as far as the story will record.