And possibly remove the 3 Vigor cost (1 perhaps), and thus probably the speed/distance it takes you too. Perhaps that would be fine.
I don’t think people fly up high to avoid PVP at all. I can count the number of times I’ve been Whirling Surged and/or Netted on a single hand any which way. The reason people fly high is simply because it’s the best way to ensure you regain vigor while flying long distances.
I would argue that the mechanics that you mention with fall damage is bad for world PVP. I don’t consider one shotting someone because they didn’t happen to have a particular item in their bag, to be good/desirable PVP gameplay. It’s just annoying because the other player (the attacker) has essentially just killed you in one button press and already flown away. Instead, the mechanic should be to force an opponent to have a fair-ish fight with you, if you pick on them.
I’m mostly referring to the people in Steady Flight flying up high to avoid PvP, not necessarily the ones Skyriding.
There are many ways to avoid fall damage though that don’t require you to have a certain item.
Hunters can disengage, boomkins can flap, rogues can Shadow Step an NPC before hitting the ground, warriors can heroic leap, mages can blink or slow fall, priests can levitate, monks can either roll jump (if they have the talent) or transcendence to stop the momentum, Evokers and DH can just glide, shamans can leap, paladins have bubble and bop, etc.
Every class besides death knights have something in their toolkit that can avoid fall damage but alot of players don’t realize it.
If you negate fall damage like that, those players are never going to learn that they can do those things.
I mean, I don’t consider people running around in a literal raid group in WPvP good/desirable PvP gameplay, but it exists, and we have to deal with it. It’s part of the game and you either have to find a creative way to deal with it or have a group of your own.
In this case, buy a Goblin Glider Kit or learn your class and the ways it can naturally avoid fall damage.
Perhaps just a difference of opinion of what constitutes good PVP gameplay then. I don’t consider fall damage, or knocking-off (like in EOTS) to be fun or engaging PVP.
Is your argument that there are other undesirable aspects of PVP, and thus we need to ensure that all the existing undesirable aspects remain in place? Clearly no. Games are code and possible to change. We should strive for and ask for improvements, not just “deal with it.” At the very least you can do both (as I am now).
No. What you may find undesirable, others might not. I guess I should’ve followed up on what I meant, but just because I dislike large, raid scale WPvP doesn’t mean that everyone else does. I find it undesirable, yes, but there are others out there who find it enjoyable. Something about an “epic battle” and “faction pride” or maybe it’s “guild vs guild” that some people like. In my head, I think, “what’s the point? It’s laggy. It’s whoever has the most players, etc.” but others don’t care about that and find it fun.
The way I see it when it comes to fall damage and other “annoying” mechanics in WPvP is that it’s part of WPvP and I enjoy it. There’s something about WPvP that makes it more than just players fighting out in the world. There’s so many other factors that make it so much different than other areas of PvP.
WPvP is more like Player vs Player vs Environment. You fight other players in different environments and you choose your battles. You want to attack a player in the middle of this town full of guards? Go for it buddy, but face the consequences when the guards are constantly rooting you and killing you. You want to fight this shaman near a large cliff? Do it at your own risk. You want to fight at this FFA PvP WQ? Be prepared to fight your own faction possibly.
Fall damage in my opinion is part of this Player vs Player vs Environment aspect of WPvP. If someone wants to choose the convenience of travelling faster via flying (and what others see as “avoiding” PvP) then they should face the consequences when they’re dismounted. Have something to break the fall or go splat.
Yup, think this is just a matter of difference of opinion. My desirable World PVP mode is not this. I actually enjoy the fight when players jump me and I have a chance to respond, but as you surmise, I find it annoying to just be knocked off a ledge or rooted out of the air to be killed in one shot. I would think that most people do too.
I think things like this are what deters players from engaging in World PVP, to include powerful world buffs and the like which results in one-sided fights. But I get that others enjoy it. I would have thought that most PVPers, including world PVPers would prefer my style rather than yours, but maybe I’m wrong. Would be nice to see a poll.
Its probs the single funniest thing yeeting someone after they pop every CD and die to fall damage instantly. Knocks also punish people who have no idea about positioning which is totally fair
The history of world pvp is mired in ganking, trolling and griefing. There’s a vendor in the room with the honor gear vendor that sells wild and crazy world pvp items. It’s a place that’s meant to goof and have fun. I think it’s not fair to expect world pvp to a fair and balanced playing field. That’s what arena is for.
I enjoy the fight too, and while it might be annoying to be knocked off a ledge and die to fall damage, it’s all a matter of positioning. Just the other day I was fighting a warrior and half way through the fight, a discipline priest joined the fight and started to heal him. Healers are hard to kill right now in a 1v1, let alone in my case a 2v1. Because he was positioned horribly, I was able to stun + knock and he died to fall damage. It allowed me to then finish off the warrior. Use your environment to your advantage.
From what I noticed, what deters players from WPvP the most are dead/unbalanced shards. In the entire history of WPvP, what caused people to turn off War Mode (or transfer off of PvP servers) has been unbalanced shards/servers. Too much of the enemy faction with too little of your own faction to help.
This is actually what Ion had said at the beginning of BfA in a Q&A. The War Mode population was relatively balanced, but there was a bug in sharding (due to LFG postings for WQs and the likes) that created heavily unbalanced shards. By the time they fixed the issue, alot of Alliance turned off WM and that’s when they had to introduce better incentives for them to turn it on.
It’s what’s happening today as well in TWW. More Horde are turning off War Mode because there’s a lot more Alliance players. More people started going Alliance (many factors including better racials) and now the Horde WM bonus is 15% (indicating they are the outnumbered population).
I don’t mind the cooldown on whirling surge. I find it I miss them the first time I can usually keep up with them still with some skillful flying and try again.
My problem with it is that most of the time they’ll just use a glider or some other way of avoiding the fall damage and mount up before I can reach them to put them in combat again. 1.5 seconds is not a lot of time to land within range of them and hit them with something.
I think dismount effects such as whirling surge and the net should apply a short debuff that prevents people from remounting for say 5 seconds or so once they land.
I just hearthed when I got the bounty because I couldn’t fly anymore. The game is literally unplayable without flying. All these zones are designed for flying mounts. There are cliffs, valleys and ledges everywhere. You need to fly in order to quest, mine and do open world content.
As someone who has played a lot of Classic on PvP servers I understand where you are coming from in a way but that doesn’t work in today’s game because of how it’s designed.
I wouldn’t mind if in major cities like Org or Stormwind there is no flying so you have to literally invade via the front gate. That’s about it though. So that way you are alerted the city is under attack and you can defend it.
I miss the flying guards they added in TBC. If you flew near an enemy city in Outland you’d get marked and then air guards would spawn that would knock you off your mount. If you stayed on the ground those air guards would not spawn.
I’m not sure why they didn’t continue that into Wrath and beyond. You should not be able to freely fly around a enemy city.
I want to PvP and love WPvP what are you talking about? I swear people can’t read.
With that said maybe it was a bug. I can now fly with the bounty at least in Ringing Deeps so I can keep playing the game, Questing, mining and farming. So this is a good thing.
Wrong the game is unplayable if you can’t fly. The zones are designed around dragonriding. Are you supposed to just sit there and do nothing when you get the bounty? No you should still be playing the game as normal, questing, farming, gathering, just with a bounty.
It’s not impossible also Netomatic works.
With that said the last few times I got bounty I could fly so I was fortunate I could keep playing the game and doing WPvP. Just that initial time I got bounty and was stuck where I couldn’t fly I had to hearth.
I’ve mentioned in another thread since the game is based on flying. It’s 100% mandatory to play the game. Why not improve Dragonriding for PvP and allow us to upgrade mounts to shoot a net and knock people out of the air and they are then parachuted to the ground.
Dragonriding is what the game is built around now so why not continue to build on it even in PvP. That could make WPvP even better.
They could even add Dragon riding WPvP quest knock 5 players out of the air. I see potential here.
We should be allowed to fly, but at slower flying speeds (especially skyriding specifically). Limit skyriding speed to 560% or something while bountied. Steady flight stays the same, but so long as we can dismount them with Whirling Surge (since its currently bugged and STILL doesn’t work).
Abomb is right when he says that the game is designed for flying, this holds especially true in the newer zones. Some areas you can get by foot but for the most part theres steep hills that you cant get up without flying.
I always log off my bounty for that reason. Otherwise Im a sitting duck.
