Never.
Hunters have good specs.
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They should buff the crap out of prot warriors, so everyone can tell all the warriors to just respec to prot.
Guild already have tanks in place for all raids? Too bad, respec.
Aww, your dps gear you’ve been working on wont work for tanking? TOO bad, prot is good you should just respec.
Male orc warrior miner from Mankrik. Meme legend 
Wouldn’t bother me. I play Warrior not Fury.
you joke but plenty of prot warriors lost their spots to change class to prot paladins , was this any better ?
pure dps class vs. hybrid class
I don’t think that was his point. He wasn’t saying Fury should be competitive with Mages, he was comparing the excelent scaling Fire Mage in this phase with the supposedly excelently scaling Fury - to show that we aren’t benefiting from the ilvl buff in the way that was predicted - while Fire mages are an example of a spec that is.
Very early on we are seeing scaling directly show significant improvements for Fire - as predicted. We are not seeing that for Fury. So, the proposition that Fury will pop off in Ulduar due to the ilvl buff is dubious.
Context is everything.
You sure about that? Hand of Reckoning is a massive buff. That ability alone has been 10-15% of their dps and is beating everything but seal and judgement damage. It is insane. It is free damage as it is off the gcd and you can macro to all your abilities giving it 100% uptime. That is on top of the far faster staking of SoV and the fact that sov will now add stacks on cleave targets with divine storm. Nah, Ret got a minimum of a 20-25% raw dps buff. They are easily A tier now without question. At least the ones who know how to use HoR.
HoR also scales better than exorcism, consecration and hammer. It does significantly more damage for less mana. This was an obscene buff actually. You would be upset if you could understand how powerful it was.
2 Likes
This is a matter of semantics really, if I’m at the bottom, does it matter if subtlety or frost are down there with me? Especially when we consider that dagger rogues can go assassination if they really want to or mages just respec out of deep frost. Which I believe we see now in general, most mages in ulduar just play the spec that their raid wants, especially on hard modes and sub is almost never seen because it’s too front loaded to be good in comparison to the other rogues specs.
So, let’s keep in mind, that 3.2 brought alot of quality of life changes for ret and a few buffs/nerfs to prot and holy. Let’s say, we go to 3.1 before other specs got buffed alongside ret, what do we really get? In my eyes it’s moot, we end up in a similar overall position and bring a few others down with us out of spite, warriors and rogues will still eventually scale better than us, among other classes.
Really all we’re fighting against is the misconception that ret will be fixed by going to 3.1 but they’ll end up feeling similar… actually Blizzard felt that seal of bloods self damage aspect was a liability in PVE as raid wide damage intake increased, there’s nuance to this beyond just damage.
Just for fun, let’s look at what Warriors got in 3.2 as a comparison as they’re the other classic plate class.
Battle Shout - Radius increased to 30 yards
Bloodrage - This ability now generates 20 rage initially, and 10 rage over the next 10 seconds. The health cost is unchanged
Commanding Shout - radius increased to 30 yards.
Execute - This ability now never costs more than a total of 30 rage. The tooltip for Sudden Death has been revised to remove reference to that maximum, since the ability now behaves that way even when untalented.
Shield Slam - The benefit from additional block value this ability gains is now subject to diminishing returns. Diminishing returns occur once block value exceeds 30 times the player’s level and caps the maximum damage benefit from shield block value at 34.5 times the player’s level.
Armored to the Teeth - This talent now provides 1/2/3 attack power per 108 armor, up from per 180 armor.
Bloodsurge - Notification that Slam has become instant now appears in floating combat text.
Devastate - Weapon damage and bonus per sunder armor on the target increased by 100%, this ability now requires a shield to be equipped.
Shield specialization - Now provides 5 rage on a block, dodge or parry instead of 2 rage on a block.
3.2.2
Sword specialization - Now has a 2/4/6/8/10% chance to proc an extra attack, up from 1/2/3/4/5%
Critical Block - This talent now grants a 20/40/60% chance to block double the normal amount instead of 10/20/30%.
3.3.0
Victory Rush - * This ability is now trainable at level 6.
Damage Shield - This ability will no longer trigger any chance-on-hit effects from the warrior or the opponent it damages.
3.3.2
Concussion Blow - The damage done by this ability has been reduced by 50%, but its threat generation will remain approximately the same.
Devastate - This ability now deals 120% of weapon damage, up from 100% of weapon damage.
Shield Slam - The damage scaling from block value for this ability now diminishes faster and diminishes starting at a lower block value. The difference should be negligible for players in high-end tanking armor. In addition, the threat caused by Shield Slam has been increased by 30%.
Warbringer - This talent no longer allows charge and intercept to break roots and snares, intervene remains unchanged.
3.3.3
Revenge - Damage done by this ability (base and scaling) increased by 50%
Thunderclap - This ability now counts as a ranged attack, granting it double damage on critical strikes instead of 150% and ranged miss chance, and still cannot be dodged or parried.
Bladestorm - Warriors can now be Disarmed while under the effects of this ability.
Trauma - The debuff from this talent now lasts 60 seconds, up from 15 seconds.
Rampage - This effect is now passive instead of being a proc from critical strikes.
Improved Revenge - This talent can no longer trigger a stun, and instead increases damage done by Revenge by 30/60% and causes Revenge to strike an additional target.
Vitality - Now boosts Stamina by 3/6/9%, up from 2/4/6%. Strength and expertise benefits have not changed.
So what do we see from the mighty warrior class? For the most part, buffs to Protection and a few small buffs/quality of life changes to arms and fury…and an important nerf to bladestorm so that it can be disarmed. What does this mean? That warrior as we all know scaled naturally and didn’t receive many buffs in 3.2 or afterward for it’s DPS specs, our DPS warriors wouldn’t change too much if they were brought down to 3.1 but there’s a cost to this elsewhere and it would be unwise to go back to 3.1 class balance for many classes/specs.
It’s unfortunate that retribution players and rerollers feel less competitive but without rebalancing everything, there isn’t a true escape from their position.
I wonder how protection warriors would feel about being rolled back to 3.1 just to satisfy the curiosity of a few ret players, or any other DPS spec for that matter, 3.1 ret can’t compete against the buffed versions of other classes in any way as far as damage goes, to truly fix rets position would require dragging everyone else down or massively rebalancing retribution.
3 Likes
I do think buffing damage/hp/enrage timers on bosses to the point you have to exclude certain dps/tanks/healers is a mistake. Can’t go back now though.
Yeah it’s strong. I think giving us a flat % dage increase would have been better+easier to tune across the board.
But what’s done is done, and we will see what the future holds.
Yeah, and unfortunately, ret damage was so far behind on average that even with that, we kind of just caught up to the pack without leap frogging much of anything.
It basically just lets us compete without having our 99 parses outdone by 70 parses of the better classes.
Not sure why they decided to give Ret an ability that does more on average than crusader strike, scales with a 50% ap coefficient and is usable from 30 yards off the gcd. I’m loving it right now, but it has some very nasty potential power. Yeah, a 50% coefficient. It is already beating out Hammer of Wrath and Exorcism by a long shot with none of the downsides of those spells.
I rather be a warrior suffering than any spec a shaman uses, Poor suckers suffer for EXPANSIONS
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I don’t know. Based on what I saw last night in Ulduar playing my DK and the testing I did today in Naxx and VOA on my relatively undergeared ret (4.2k), they are in a position to leapfrog DKs and possibly assassination rogues.
Warriors dont stop improving through the rest of the expansion. Their curve just keeps going up and never levels out.
You say that but based on what? Show me the curve?
We have a smoother improvement curve than Ret - but generally it’s pretty average until we hit ICC and can hard cap Arp.
Did you play retail wrath?
This isn’t retail Wrath.
It’s not a private server either.
That’s not being trite.
A lot of things aren’t following the Retail Wrath (or private servers) path. /cough Ret
For a start titans Grip had no 10% damage debuff in early Ulduar.
The stats on gear and tier set bonuses have not changed. So logic says unless they change you will see a repeat of what happened in wrath retail.