So you have people that if you’re not rolling the top end of the most current raid tier they’ll kick you out of RDF, on top of that you get a 30 min wait, this is going to be a big problem with impatient people in cataclysm and needs to be removed.
9 Likes
One of the dumbest changes the Classic Team made. And…that’s saying something.
8 Likes
I do think that it needs to be removed or at least reworked for Cataclysm especially.
6 Likes
you must be the unluckiest person on the planet or maybe I am the luckiest…I dont know.
While I wont deny this behaviour by the occasional jackdonkeys its so rare that it simply doesnt justify a rework of the current mechanic when it protects you at the same time against trolls who would abuse the system to leave groups “stranded”
I mean about 90+% of my activity in WoW is running dungeons. Not raids, regular 5man dungeons and I can count on 2 hands how often that happened to me or I saw it happen.
Are you overreacting maybe?
4 Likes
wasnt always there. it was introduced because of our actions.
Imagine the SWEAT and gatekeeping in Cataclysm gammas. lol
I do not even dare to imagine how bad it will be if they do the same as they did with WOTLK gammas and add new affix.
I bet some clowns will gatekeeps heroics during the first month.
3 Likes
Eh, not really.
This was done to avoid tanks holding groups hostage and asking to be kicked to avoid deserter.
That has happened in OG Wrath. This also happens on pservers.
It’s fair to say it’s a double edged sword, but not fair to say that it’s “dumbest change”.
…getting stunned in old dungeons after 30s of aggro is arguably dumber
Because if it wasn’t in the game, people would be complaining how tanks hold groups hostage without any penalties. OR a healer.
4 Likes
No, it didn’t.
First of all, there’s still a 15 minute dungeon cooldown (not the same as deserter debuff), so you can’t instantly requeue anyway. In original Wrath people would just bang out a braindead easy Heroic. Which was just as fast, and you still got rewards. Rather than being kicked and waiting 15 minutes before you could queue again.
Secondly, you couldn’t even initiate a vote kick for…15 minutes I think. Though that may have been changed later in Wrath.
So really the root of the problem is actually these Mythic Lite dungeons the Classic team added to Wrath. It promotes this kind of toxic gatekeeping. Take them out and players would most likely just rip through easy Heroics, like we did in original Wrath.
3 Likes
It most def did exist in og wrath.
Speaking as one of the tanks that was part of the problem at times back than and yes will admit it.
Was quite common for tanks or helaers to go afk or go to town to get the group to kick to avoid the deserter debuff, esp if oculus poped. Only stoped when they made kicks also give it.
The thing that blizzard forgot thou was that they also added a timer till your allowed to kick based on the amount of kicks you have made in the past vs instances complete. So if you never kicked or agreed to a kick you could instantly kick people. If you agreed to kicks or started kicks (starting was weighted higher) you wouldent be able to kick people to the point of having a 1 hour delay before you were allowed to kick people if you did a lot.
The change of them not adding the 2nd part is the issue not them adding the first part that was there in og wrath.
2 Likes
K, gaslight someone else.
I did a good thousand random heroics that last year of Wrath. Had exactly 0 people hold a group hostage. Maybe things were different on alliance, but wasn’t happening on Horde.
You never seeing it happen dosent mean it dint happen.
It happened quite a bit to the point that this change was made in oh wrath. In fact it was the vary stated reason for the change. Remember is quite well as paid attention to it at the time due as mentioned being one of the tanks that at times did exactly that. Even used to drop guildys into a group via an instant tank que for them to start a kick on me so I dint have to run the instance only drop them in. Which is also why later the change came to kick people that qued with you if you left the instance (thou this was not till later in cata, and only applied to leaving as the former change fixed the case of when your kicked).
4 Likes
This didn’t exist in original Wrath. If you were kicked, you didn’t get deserter debuff.
1 Like
False. You can argue otherwise till your face is blue but that is not the case and dosent matter in the end. Blizzard has placed it in there to match how it was to prevent the issue from becoming an issue again. You not liking the reaosn dosent change that as the reason.
If you want a change giving reasons to have it changed would get you much further than trying to claim it wasn’t there when it was and blizzards actions themselves show they think it should be there.
“Players who are removed from a dungeon group through the Vote Kick system, are uninvited by a group leader from a premade group of five, or leave willingly from a premade group of five, however, will not receive the Dungeon Deserter debuff.”
Some important notes about this system:
-
Group members may not be immediately nominated for a vote kick after joining a dungeon group. If you attempt to vote kick a group member before the imposed grace period expires, you will receive the message: “That player may not be kicked yet.”
-
Players who are removed from a group through the Vote Kick system will not receive the Dungeon Deserter debuff.
-
Players who are removed from a group through the Vote Kick system can immediately re-queue for a dungeon, Dungeon Cooldown permitting; however, the Dungeon Finder will prevent these players from being placed back into the group from which they were kicked.
I love it when people try to argue with me about RDF in original Wrath.
And I don’t care why the Classic team decided to make this change. It was a bad change, and all it’s done is empower trolls.
1 Like
Not sure what you are trying to prove by quoting a page from the launch of the system. When such a change wasent there at the start of the system.
It was added to address the problem of tanks holding a group hostage, as was outright said. It was not there at the start. A problem with a system dosent exist before a system is added. You need the system first to see a problem. Your page has proven exactly nothing.
2 Likes
That didn’t happen. You literally couldn’t vote kick someone for 15 minutes. Now, they did change that later on allowing some people to vote kick from the start of the dungeon. Basically people who weren’t vote kicking anyway. That may have been Cata, or late Wrath. I can’t recall. But anyway, it shows how little vote kicks were happening. And obviously you can’t blame that change on people holding groups hostage, since they couldn’t even be kicked. And even if they could, you had a 15 minute dungeon cooldown. You couldn’t requeue anyway. There was literally no point to hold a group hostage. You’d just bang out a dungeon in 15 minutes instead.
But you still didn’t get the dungeon deserter if you were kicked. Not in Wrath.
1 Like
Shouldn’t be more than 10 minutes.
They need to change this in Retail as well.
2 Likes
Both from your post.
You should read your own post.
That 's why they changed some rules in RDF.
I don’t know what you’re trying to say.
They didn’t remove it. They did change the non-kick time from 15 minutes to 3 minutes.