Well I can’t argue with the male Void Elf styles with receding hairlines being less than appealing I’ll give you that! 
But I think several of the female styles I quite pretty. Maybe not as many as I’d like, but there’s definitely at least a few I’d like to steal for my Blood Elves >_>
I mean, most people agree that the Melancholy style is popular and nice looking, but I also like the Controlled, Unleashed, Falling Tears, and Scandal styles as well. Here’s the Controlled style on a Blood Elf:
And a few trying to evoke a reaction from people happily living out their High Elf fantasy via customization. Again those blinders make it easier to see what those we disagree with are doing vs what the ones we do agree with are doing.
I feel like if you’re secure in your stance than other peoples stances shouldn’t bother you
The stance isn’t what bothers me, it’s the presentation in discourse I take issue with at times. Like, I felt like even though Mortiz and I had differing opinions, there was no malice in the interactions we were having. His choice or words conveyed clearly that he wasn’t trying to make me feel bad, or belittle my choice of portrayal of a High Elf via Void Elf customization, as if it was somehow “lesser” just because it was an “RP tool”.
Your original post didn’t come across as civil to me. It came across as a less than subtle attempt to say “so what if you got your knock off’s cause mine are the only real deal”. Even if that wasn’t your intent, it came across that way to me. I get that visual uniqueness matters to you, but the ship has sailed, the skin care has arrived, and the dye jobs have happened. It wasn’t the outcome you and several others wanted, and any time topics talking about Void Elves and customization come up, it just adds salt to the wound.
Even Fen catches flak from Fyre and he’s not asking for High Elf customization. Do you ever admonish them for that?
Why? They’re both “high elves” they are the same thing…
It’s nice and so that you two get half-away along but we all need to verify from where this discovered Bronzebeard quote comes from. People tend to say from WotLK and archaeology but this hasn’t been proven yet.
This is all true but the question is, when the High Elves in Silvermoon started calling themselves Blood Elves did that make them a different race? Did it make them look different?
Similar point with the Void Elves.
That is how this discussion started.
i wouldn’t call it a race change but a 180º cultural change.
they stand as race, but the old cultural high elf civilization is gone, blood elves are now, light elves, void elves retain the magic hunger they basically tbc belves, and the silver covenant are humanized elves.
we have a real world example in taiwan and china, both calling themselves the real china
That depends on if you think being infused with one type of magic or another changes your race. And it’s a murky discussion to be sure.
Blood Elves eye color changed to green when they started powering Silvermoon with fel crystals (and in some cases we saw Blood Elves siphoing fel energy from them directly - Blizzard really needs to update Silvermoon because I am sure those fel crystals are gone by now). They weren’t “infused” like the Fel Blood Elves were though so they didn’t experience the same level of physical change as the Fel Blood.
Demon Hunters are infused with fel and a demon’s soul, to the point where they develop demonic features such as wings, claws, and scales. Are Blood Elf and Night Elf Demon Hunters still Blood Elves or Night Elves just because the game mechanics presents them under their respective race categories?
Everyone likes to say Paladins are infused with the Light… but are they a different race because of that? is a Human or Blood Elf Paladin any less of a Human or Blood Elf because of the Light flowing through them… even if it changes them in some way like say… making their eyes glow yellow?
Then we have Lightforged Draenei and Highmountain Tauren. Is Paladin Light infusion somehow different from Lightforged Light infusion? Did the blessing that gives Highmountain their different antlers change their race? In truth I think many would agree that Lightforged and Highmountain could have been customization options under their parent races rather than allied races.
Playable Kul Tirans look very different from playable Humans originating from Stormwind, but they are still Human, despite fan fiction that they crossbred with Drust and that’s why they look the way they do. The devs are on record stating this is not the case.
The Nightborne remained under a dome for 10,000 years and relied on the Nightwell to sustain them. They clearly have physical changes, and the culture is an evolution of the original Kal’dorei culture, not the more nature based of the Night Elves of today, yet both Tyrande and Alyssra were around 10,000 years ago and have a shared heritage.
The Void Elves as a “race” are very new, being barely a few years old at the end of BfA, and possibly several more after the timeskip between Shadowlands and Dragonflight. The ones caught in Durzaan’s trap were clearly affected by it physically, but the devs have left the Ren’dorei in limbo regarding how new recruits are coming into their power.
The answer I find most likely, but still needs dev confirmation, is that the new recruits are studying the void via a path similar (but not necessarily identical - so don’t jump down my throat about a lack of Dark Naaru) to Alleria’s since that seems far safer and reliable. If that ends up being the case, that would explain Void Elves retaining their typical High Elf skin and hair colors.
I don’t believe that Umbric would subject anyone to the experience he and his squad endured in Durzaan’s trap, and trying to recreate that ritual which was prematurely interrupted and never intended to create the Void Elves Umbric and his squad became, and modify so it does so safely and reliably, seems implausible and incredibly foolish when you have a relatively safe and proven method (Alleria’s) already at hand along with Alleria’s teach Locus Walker.
Blizzard categorizes Alleria’s race as Void Elf now, but she clearly looks the same as a typical High Elf when not in void form.
The player Void Elves looked different when first introduced, as they seem to have been intended to be part of Umbric’s initial squad that got zapped in Duzaan’s trap.
The presence of Silvermoon Scholars and High Elf Wayfarers implies that new Void Elf recruits may be coming from these visitors. A player Void Elf could originate from one of these recruits if that’s the case.
The High Elf customization options now allow player Void Elves to appear as typical High Elves when Entropic Embrace isn’t active, just like Alleria, albeit with a different selection of hairstyles than Blood Elves have.
What we need is for Blizzard to answer the question of how do new recruits come into their powers. Is it some variant of the Alleria method? Is it some variant of the Durzaan ritual? Or is it something else entirely? And even then… how Blizzard treats the word “race” in game mechanics and game lore still leaves us without a clear answer of are they actually a different race.
It makes me think of the X-Men. They are mutants… but are they any less human because of their mutation? Are they just human plus? Are they a new breed or ethnicity or human? Or are they altogether something not human?
Good because Void Elves are Blood Elves. Weird how that works huh?
It is it weird when it is a fact?
They are no Lightforged Draenei, they are just empowered by it.
But yes, the golden eyes are due the Sunwell and Velen’s doing, if I remember correctly.
This is true.
https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlore/comments/gvi88x/why_are_kul_tirans_so_big/fsqdng2/
I think it really comes down to this, in several ways. Either for the RP community or simply because Alleria can control it, so why shouldn’t the players?
This reads like more of what I was saying earlier that the points or comments you dislike from them amount to and pertain to only this topic.
They think that thread was at times a thinly veiled HE thread. So what? If their comments moved past that to a degree of something that is actually awful then sure I would say something.
When you say “catching flak from” and then go on to elaborate more of what amounts to something only pertaining to disagreeing over elf customization I don’t see what you’re suggesting that they are doing that i or anyone else is supposed to call out? I see why you do because you disagree w their stance and either the stance or they themselves at this point apparently bother you because of it but I haven’t seen where they have insulted anyone.
Personally I think this was one of the most important points made in this thread, and that is my thoughts almost exactly.
Nico, don’t want to disagree with what you’re trying to say, but Paladins aren’t infused with the light. And these are the sources to confirm it.
Of Blood and Honor (Chapter 2):
- “Archbishop: In the Light, we gather to empower our brother. In its grace, he will be made anew. In its power, he shall educate the masses. In its strength, he shall combat the shadow. And, in its wisdom, he shall lead his brethren to the eternal rewards of paradise.”
- “Archbishop: Clerics of the Northshire, if you deem this man worthy, place your blessings upon him.
One of the clerics comes with a blessed dark blue embroidered stole in his hands, which he placed reverently around Tirion’s neck. Then, he dipped his thumb in a small vial of sacred oil and anointed Tirion’s forehead.”- “Archbishop: Knights of the Silver Hand, if you deem this man worthy, place your blessings upon him.
Two of the armored men comes, the first laid the warhammer before Tirion’s feet. The second, Saidan Dathrohan, placed the silver plates upon Tirion’s shoulders.”- “Each of the clerics and knights raised their right hands and pointed toward Tirion, empowered him with the holy light.”
Arthas: Rise of the Lich King (Part 1: Chapter 5):
- “In the Light, we gather to empower our brother.”
- & 3) are similar to the 2) & 3) from above
- “Sweat broke out on Arthas’s brow. What was going wrong? Why wasn’t the Light wrapping itself around him in blessing and benediction?”
The rest of the book makes a point that the light flows through him or he’s channeling it etc. Same as priests.
- Chapter 8 … “Maybe if he focused on fighting, on learning how to accept, and channel and direct the Light, he could get the hell over her. Over the girl he himself had broken up with”
Had he been infused, why would he need to learn to accept, channel, and direct the light? Seems like it’d only be directing.
- This ceremony is exclusive to the Order of the Silver Hand, which not all Paladins are a part of. There is no evidence to support that other Paladin individuals/races/organizations undergo the same process nor is it explicitly mentioned that it’s needed to become a Paladin.
This is just a fact. Silver Hand was originally just Humans and Dwarves.
Draenei became Paladins through the Naaru teaching them about the Light.
High Elves had Paladins through normal worship of the Light, but briefly lost in after most of them renamed to Blood Elves and had to drain it from Naaru. With the Sunwell restored, the Blood Knights returned to embracing the Light like the originally did.
Sunwalkers get the Light from basic worship of An’she, which is just a different form of the Draenei worshipping it through the Naaru and Humans/Dwarves through the Light itself.The first Human Paladins were literally just Warrior + Priest
Tides of Darkness (Chapter 5)
- “I will establish a new branch of the Church, the paladins. I have already selected the first candidates for this order. Some were knights before but others were priests. I chose these men for both their piety and their martial prowess. They will be trained, not only in war but in prayer and in healing. And each of these valient fighters will possess both martial and spiritual power, particularly in blessing themselves and other with the strength of the Holy Light.”
Beards on Belfs/Velfs, look stupid …
Why do you think something like this?
they look weird, with very little hair
So lets say you are from the USA. You grew up there and spent your whole like there. red-blooded American through and through. Let’s say this America is in an Alliance called… NATO. And then, all of a sudden, a massive war happened. 75% of USAs population gets wiped out. After all the smoke has settled your government decides to rename yourselves in honor of all the fallen. Your country is now called United States of Perseverance. And instead of being called Americans your people now call themselves Perseverians. And when the topic came about coming back to this NATO? Yeah the government said screw that, they didn’t help us when we needed it the most so no reason to go back there. Especially when the neighboring country which is from another Alliance is being extremely helpful.
Fast forward a decade or so and some space travellers come home with a freaky virus called zombvoids that makes them all funky and purple. This freaks out the USP(United States of Perserverance) and they don’t welcome them. So these zombvoid Americans go to the other side of the old NATO alliance in Europe and start to hang with them, which incidentally still have some Americans from before the war that never left. Deciding to now call themselves Zombvoidians.
Now which of these two groups would you say are America? If you were thrown into this world as an American where would you go? To the Zombvodians in Europe or the Perserverians in America?
In my eyes the Zombvodians aren’t American any longer. They are European. Sure its messed up that the USP turned them away. And it honestly makes 0 sense that they did it but Blizz isn’t known for good writing which is the parameters I’m working with here.
PS: For this example let’s imagine Americans are one ethnic race.
PS PS: If your home country is being devastated for whatever reasons and you decide not to return to help you are abandoning it. Especially if you still decide to stay away even after the conflict.
The moment you started to argue in bad faith the discussion has been lost.
I appreciate the references thanks for sharing them!