Just pointing out that the Horde benefitting more from Mage Priest Rogue being added to all races is literally because we lacked those combos.
So it’s not somehow the Horde has gotten ahead of the Alliance, you’re literally seeing equality in that area now and because Alliance was ahead because they had those combos on their races mostly they simply get equalized.
It always tells me a lot about a person when they see equal treatment after being used to receiving more attention or being ahead or being catered to even, and then somehow seeing themselves as the injured party in that, things being made equal means we’re now the same you’re not somehow behind.
I’m very much not. But I am glad that you said this, I can respect the truth being said. And to be honest I prefer when you make points that I can comment on rather than arguing w you so I am content to add on to this by saying that has always been my point.
They can always run out of steam when it comes to more difficult combos on specific races and say well we achieved most of our goal, and then you just never hear from them again.
It’s odd to me that people who refused to not accept their word on High Elf RP tools now decide their word is law. They change their mind at different times for different reasons, they said SL would be the customization selling point expansion then said no more in 9.1 just to flip flop again slightly in 9.1.5 I think it was but they still wasted the opportunity to give people stuff in 9.1
We’re still waiting on heritage armor for all races.
Diverse customization options for the purposes of diversity and representation was said to also be a major goal for them. Blood Elves have 4 non white skin tones, the other 10 are shades of white, that was it? If this was a makeup line and they were selling foundations that ratio would get them cancelled. And that’s just BEs idk how the other human skin toned races are doing in that diversity department.
Blizzards words mean nothing and a general goal of wanting to do something means nothing, and in this regard my bias in the argument would prefer certain class outcomes to not happen, but I am fine w most being opened up for all.
And yet, the Horde has more Druids, Shamans, Monks combos than the Alliance has. That seems like a pretty weak argument there to make on “Horde had less of those combos than Alliance”.
I understood why Alliance had more Paladins and Horde had more shamans, because of those classes being restrictive to the factions back in Vanilla, but still not the point.
Well, I can speak for myself that I fully consider Void elves to also be High elves, and I consider a separate High elf race wholly unnecessary, but some people think we ruined their favourite void-themed elves just because we asked for some more natural options. So they think a separate high elf race will solve things. I mean yes it WILL solve things but then we’ll need to give the Horde a separate Thalassian elf race as well to keep things even.
But the point is, Blizzard didn’t unlock those classes more because one faction had less of those classes than the others, despite actually Rogues were even between both factions before the release of Shadowlands, but because of the direction Blizzard is looking at taking. As Nico said, nothing is set in stone yet, so we’ll just have to wait and see what is still to come and when.
Mages rogues and priests were specifically brought up in reference to this.
And in that regard the Alliance is not lacking because they benefitted less because they were already ahead.
They can add paladins rather easily to night elves and gnomes and Kul tirans. That doesn’t mean they’re an easy add for VEs or that it’ll end up getting done.
They can add most for classes for all races and still never get to a final few.
This, plus lets be real here the only classes that will require time and effort to be given to everyone is Druid, Shaman and Paladin so more than likely if Blizzard abandons the all classes for all races like they usually abandon everything else it will be those classes that get overlooked, ignored and not added to all races.
Sorry, but this is entirely false. Before the Shadowlands prepatch, there was a total of 101 Class/Race combinations that could be made, per faction, or 202 for the grand total. What one faction lacked with some, made up for others in what the other faction lacked off.
Void Elf and Undead Paladin could be a lot of fun conceptually if it’s used to explore the false dichotomy between Void and Light and how they are part of the very same cycle.
Even not going there in terms of lore focus, solely giving these new class combos a flavor analogue would work, like treating potential NB druids more like Astromancers and Botanists, and Undead or Void Elf Paladins as Void Knights.
I feel like they’d still need to make new totems, new forms and new Paladin mounts for those where with stuff like say Warlocks for all, Monks for all, etc. it’s just add them and bam you have everything basically and I say that as someone that supports stuff like Night Elf Paladin big time because it should of been playable race/class combo since the end of Legion.
Well I like that idea, Alliance is very behind on Shamans, I’d totally dig VE Shamans and wouldn’t mind waiting longer for a proper void-themed pala for VEs even if it meant being among the last to get Pala. At least it’d give them time to recolour Pala spells for us to look more voidy
Yea, Heritage armor is a perfect example of Blizzard “running out of steam” with an idea. I mean, assuming we start counting at the end of Legion/beginning of BfA for when the idea of Heritage armor was first introduced, it’s been about 4 years and we still don’t have Heritage armor for all the core races yet. We also haven’t heard a peep about when the next Heritage is going to show up. Who’s to say that won’t happen with the whole “all races/all classes” idea?
Sure, with DF pre-patch we now have Warrior, Hunter, Mage, Rogue, Priest, and Death Knight available to every race. That leaves Warlock, Paladin, Druid, Shaman, Monk, and Demon Hunter left. Monk is as easy as flipping a switch and requiring Worgen and Goblin Monk’s to start in Exile’s Reach for continuity purposes. The rest of the classes all have specific lore and asset issues that need to be addressed for them to make sense for some races.
To avoid our own personal biases, let’s look at a non-elf example, such as Lightforged Draenei. This race being a Warlock or a Demon Hunter would be problematic without lore explanations and probably some significant asset work. It’s not that it can’t be done, but for it to “fit” into the world Blizzard might have to make Lightforged Demon Hunters be “Light-ified” like how X’era was trying to do to Illidan (all their spell effects would use a Light theme), and Lightforged Warlocks summon Light-based entities instead of the standard Warlock pets. Like say a Lightspawn instead of a Void Walker for example. That’s a lot of time and resources to invest and Blizzard may be reluctant to make such an investment.
Even if they did, that still wouldn’t address issues such as existing class quests that reference specific “typical” Warlock things that would probably be antithetical to Lightforged unless Blizzard went and reworked those too, which means even more time and resources invested. Now if Lightforged had “Man’ari Customization” RP Tools, those classes could make sense without jumping through all of the above hypothetical hoops, but that would then require Blizzard to make (or repurpose existing NPC textures) such customization options (also would probably have to recolor the Lightforged racials Fel green when using those options) and add lore explaining why the Man’ari are now buddy buddy with the Lightforged.
There are several different ways to make the problematic race/class combos work both visually and in lore, but ultimately it’s going to come down to how much time and resources Blizzard is willing to invest in such an endeavor. And during the process of trying to implement it, they could lose interest and move on to some other “next big feature!”.
While I’d be happy to see everyone able to play the race they want as whatever class they want, I’m not blind to hurdles that need to be overcome to make that happen, nor am I quick to ignore the past (Heritage armor still not finished for all races). I’m hopeful for the future, but my optimism is tempered by caution. And just to be clear on my own desires, my wish for the whole class/race proliferation thing is for Demon Hunters to become available to every race. I don’t give a flying fart in space about Paladins personally.
Hmmm, Nico, not to correct or say your wrong or anything, but some classes do require a bit more than just lore rework, assuming Blizzard will ever go with class skins, some will need to go to a major overhaul, especially rewriting the class lore. Paladins is one that needs a bit of work, but not as much. Reason why I say not as much, because we can use Taurens and Zandalari as an example.
Warlocks on the other hand, would actually need a lore overhaul. There is such reasons to why Warlocks aren’t welcomed in Night Elves, Draenei/Lightforged Draenei, Tauren/Highmountain Tauren and Mag’har Orcs cultures. (I would also include Kul Tiran and Pandaren, but I am uncertain of those 2.)
I thought I made that point by talking about new assets as well as lore being needed?
Cultural issues aren’t really a problem IMO. There can always be outliers that don’t adhere to cultural norms.
The “problematic” classes can always be required to start in Exile’s Reach so being an “unwelcome” class in their typical starting zone isn’t an issue, and to showcase that they are outliers of their racial cultural norms.
Do forgive me though, I think I might of misread your post. It is like 5.45am and I am still awake, and for some reason why I didn’t sleep, I can’t sleep because I have to work this morning too.
Thank you for saying this. There is a bit of a misunderstanding of my thoughts here and now that you’ve brought this up I can address that.
First, I’m sorry that I’ve caused you some hurt with how I worded the prior posts. I have a common issue where I don’t always effectively communicate my thoughts. Especially in these threads where many of us get a little… passionate.
I am referring in these posts ONLY to the blue skinned, blue blooded, generally tentacled group of Void Elves that I refer to as the Umbrician Void Elves. They are at the moment the only ones in lore without any assumptions or vague implication around them. They are effectively the only ones I can comment on within the lore itself specifically with certainty.
The wayfarers and scholars are vague and not really explained so I am not referring to them. All we see of them is that they’re there and not much more. We can make a lot of assumptions on this but thats all.
Alleria is herself a unique case at the moment with no lore implications on the Umbrician style void elves for which I am referring.
And I don’t honestly see joining forces happening with Vereesa? They’re hanging out but they’re sisters so thats not really surprising. I wouldn’t be surprised though if we start to see the SC involved with the Void Elves in the future.
And of course you and I have seen that in DF there may be some changes coming for the Void Elves that do have blue skin and blue blood in that we see some unnamed NPCs with natural hair colors among other things.
What you choose for your characters story and what they are is what you choose and nothing I, or anyone else, says will change that or affect it. That is your choice to make and yours alone and it is valid no matter what. You could have a blue skinned blue haired tentacled void elf and if you told me they were a high elf with blonde hair blue eyes and a natural skin tone, then that is what they are.
(I don’t know why you wouldn’t use the options available but thats besides the point.)
But again I am not working in these posts with the implied, assumed, or potential lore. I am working with the lore we have now.
No, you are not fake elves. No one is a fake elf and thats ridiculous concept at all.
If you’re an umbrician void elf then you are.
If you want to be a high elf, you’re a high elf.
If you want to be a void elf that looks for all the world like Alleria, then thats what you are.
If you’re a high elf that just uses and studies the void then thats what you are.
If you’re a blood elf scholar come to learn what is forbidden so be it.
If you’re a Dark Ranger who was raised in WCIII and have come home to roost thats what you are.
If you’re a Dark Ranger raised as a void elf during the 5th 4th War then you’re a void elf dark ranger.
Hell if you’re playing your skin tone as San’layn more power to you.
Any and all of these are valid as Blizzard has said. Thats about player choice and the Lore be damned even if the logical and assumed potential options you mentioned above didn’t exist.
All of these are also Thalassian regardless.
But to claim that Blood Elves and High Elves who have no difference between them in lore canon are the same as the void elves who have such differences in lore canon isn’t correct. Its not a case of apples to apples. There is literally no changes between a Blood Elf or a High Elf. There are between the Void Elves and either a Blood/High Elf.
Now that doesn’t mean Blood Elves are the only high elves though. Again. If you’re a high elf and you’re playing a void elf then thats what you are. A High Elf.
Blizzard has limited us but also given us those options. Take them. Use them. You’re valid.
Its also why I’m not so upset at the concept of Light paladins being an option in the end. Its not something I’ll use and least not likely but not everything is for me.
I do still hope and desire a void based paladin for Void Elves and I hope thats the lore for them.
But that also doesn’t invalidate anyone elses views. Those are my views and its not my place to tell someone its wrong.
I will argue actual concrete lore all day long though. >.> Politely as best I can.
I will also look out for my own desires of course. But again that doesn’t generally invalidate your own and yours wont invalidate anyone elses.
They’ve indicated thats what they want to move towards.
Honestly its my favorite class overall I think but also it would be neat to have voidy powers for my Rift Blade. It fits really well for them. Plate wearing void warriors would be sweet.
I’m less interested myself in the Light being a thing here but since Blizzard has said all races all classes is where they want to go I want to let them know that I want Void Paladins.
Just to be clear, I do not think that high elf options ruined void elves. I do find it frustrating not to have gotten more lore, stories and customization for the main race along the line but thats it.
I’m actually always rather happy to see how… well happy many players are with their new options. I can be upset at one thing while being happy for another.
Adding another High Elf option just seems like it would cause more trouble at this point though. >.<
The potential is there. We’ve seen Blizzard veer from class lore to bring that toolset to a group before and I would love to see that used to expand races lore rather than just haphazardly toss on new classes to each race.
