I love void elves, I wouldn’t trade them for any other race. But yeah, all the controversy they’ve caused sucks. I think this could have all been prevented had they gone Horde and Nightborne Alliance. Oh well.
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everquest had 2 generals factions - good alignment and evil alignment. the good alignment had 3 elf races - high elf, wood elf and half elf, and the evil alignment had dark elf. they had other races too. i just mentioned it cause they had alot of elf options right from the beginning
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That’s a different game though.
For WoW since the beginning the main representation that I remember was Human vs the Orc, the Night Elf vs the Troll as the big emphasis. So, in that context imagine if the Alliance got the Mag’har Orc and the Zandalari Troll. I can’t imagine that oldschool Horde who played from the beginning wouldn’t be rioting if that happened. The Elf was a foundation of t he original Alliance there was constant joking about how it was the kiddie Elf faction and there were constant back and forth with Troll vs Elf, etc. The Elf during this early period had no association with the Horde it was an early Alliance identity same as the Orc/Troll was Horde.
You see the Horde keeping Troll/Orc allied races but the Alliance losing two Elf. Give Alliance Zandalari troll for High Elf, and Orc for Nightborne and see the reaction. If any of that old Horde identity even exists anymore.
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I don’t really visit Void Elf threads anymore but I do visit this one here and there because Fen is one of my good friends like you are but then I saw this post I thought while I was dropping by I’d give your post a like because it’s okay to vent we all need to sometimes.
Also hugs. 
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you do it like this
https://ibb.co/sPSFwyb
to get that, you copy/paste the link, highlight it and then select the </> symbol above the text box, right next to the B and I and chainlink and quote marks. see it?
then people can copy paste the link to view it
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This all just tells me factions are firmly a mistake, because people are shoved into these neat little ‘boxes’. I can sincerely say I hate the Alliance v. Horde narrative more than ever lately, and the insistence of people to see one race as ‘good’ or ‘evil’. That doesn’t exist when it comes to free will. Why my character can’t decide to do [xyz] or not hate someone purely based on race boggles my mind, but we’re forced into factions and having to fight tooth-and-nail for all of this stuff that just… seems pointless.
I think it’s one of the primary reasons why this game has died for me. I am so frustrated that we can’t CHOOSE what our character does, and every single faction has to hate [x] race for whatever really stupid reason even though we’ve teamed up so many times already, or even if they don’t identify with the other faction at all. This is coming from someone who doesn’t like the Alliance and used to actually like the Horde.
I just wish we had a choice in all of this. Pandaren were a good step, being neutral, but this whole ‘faction identity’ nonsense is a bunch of sports-team tribalism that I just really can’t stand.
It also leads to people being like “WELL PRETTY ELVES DON’T BELONG ON THE HORDE” as if being beautiful automatically makes it so you can’t be fierce and connect to other races. (Not saying you’re saying this. I am just tired of the whole ‘elves don’t belong on the horde’ nonsense people spew about where we should have been able to choose right away, because some elves very well do fit on the Horde.)
In fact, the ‘old horde ONLY ORC MATTERS’ mentality is pure garbage too and feeds into the toxicity of the game, and no, I’m not afraid to say it.
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I just want to serve the one true deity of good, N’zoth and all his (its?) glory. He (it?) lets me kill whoever I want.
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I wish N’zoth had more screentime D: I was so disappointed with 8.3. Especially after their really neat cinematic.
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At least he got a bangin’ intro song. Dem druuuuuuuums 
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Yessss, agreed, they are so great.
“I have tassssted your essence” 
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It’s not that pretty Elves don’t belong on the Horde it’s Elves in particular because of how much they were an identity of the Alliance. Another “pretty” race joining the Horde that wasn’t Elf or something within the Alliance identity I doubt there would be anyone outside of the Horde complaining.
I get what you’re saying about maybe not having a choice and being put in a box but that’s kind of the choice you make choosing this game to play, at least in the early years. The idea behind it is that there’s endless amounts of conflict and history that you’re thrown into, a real life example could maybe be something like Palestine/Israel and how people question why can’t there be peace, if you’re someone thrown into that you kind of don’t have much of a choice to escape the years of conflict and history. You’re being immersed into this game world and thrown into a game wrought with war and conflict and you choose a side. Yes, there are interpersonal relationships and not everyone hates each other but there’s different overall viewpoints and goals and approaches that keep that conflict going. A world threat comes up and people are basically forced to work together all the same to stop it out of self preservation it doesn’t mean everyone is besties now because the world didn’t explode. There’s still the greater conflict, history, visions of the future and thoughts on how to get there.
If the Horde and Alliance ever came to an agreement on putting the past behind them and a fair vision of the future going forward and peace throughout the land. What would then be the point of the game? Just to sit around waiting for a universal threat, talking about the good old days when an Orc smashed this guy’s great grandfather’s head open with a mace and how Undead tore through a village just around the corner and consumed their fresh corpses.
I don’t think I’ve been asking for much all these years. All I wanted was the identity set at the beginning of the game to remain consistent with how the game expanded and grew from that beginning in both the game and community. I was letdown from this simple desire. Now I’m here begging and hoping that I can just get some of that identity back in small scraps that I once saw and still can faintly see in the distance of what was and what could be and why I’m still subbed after all these years.
Getting some of the Elven identity back to the Alliance is a start but it’s by no means a satisfying conclusion, there’s still a lot to be done just to undo what’s been done and then getting from there. Things like I need more Mylune in my life, I need Queen Azshara teaming up with Alleria and the Void Elves and a choice to follow a Queen Azshara/Alleria team-up instead of Anduin, I need Elven society on Alliance to regrow and expand and get vengeance for what happened to the tree, I need all of these ideas in this thread to be implemented. That would be nice.
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I’m going to just politely and strongly disagree with you there. That isn’t how it works in real life because you’re given a choice regardless of conflict. You are free to leave these boxes at any time. Sure, it’ll take a lot of effort, but because you’re [insert culture here] or in the game’s case [insert race here], you aren’t just forced to constantly follow a hive mind. And I firmly also stand by saying the “Early years” of WoW didn’t make either good lore, or a good game.
I used to have the sport-team ‘FOR THE HORDE’ nonsense mentality that I’ve since thrown into the garbage. Endless amounts of conflict and history mean nothing if my personal character chooses to put that aside because they legitimately do not care about whether you’re an orc or a human.
Not to mention, I’m of the Ebon Blade for gods’ sakes. Why would my Death Knight care about the factions when it’s been made clear the Death Knight’s purpose is to fight the scourge and protect Azeroth? There are no racial boundaries in the Ebon Blade. And yeah, my point applies here too. My character might not want to do any of that, given she has free will, but it’s either all or nothing. If we’re forced into this faction mentality of ‘alliance versus horde and this is the purpose of factions’, why isn’t my faction represented, AKA the Ebon Blade? So in that case, I’m still in the entirely wrong box. I should be able to pick neutrality.
…the point of the game is to fight actual enemies as opposed to the petty conflicts. Time and again we’ve seen the Legion, the scourge, the old gods, etc as an issue that’s sprung up. Time and again, the Alliance and horde need to team up and fight them. There are so so many factions in the game we could be putting energy to fighting. Twilight Council. The MANY pirate factions that pose a thread to the waters. The remainder of the demons, which will always be a threat even if the Legion is defeated. The currently rampaging scourge.
There’s so many options other than ‘let’s just fight again and again even though we’ve gotten over it five thousand times’
This wasn’t the good old days. It was a complete lack of nuance that leads to an extremely boring story. “ORC BAD EW ORC EVIL” or “UNDEAD HAVE NO FEELINGS” makes for an overdone and tired trope. “The Alliance are pure and good” and “The horde are all monsters” is also a pointless, overdone trope.
Times change. The story advances and people grow up. The factions are a tired trope that needs to either die, or at least those of us who are sick and tired of this faction nonsense need to be given neutral options. Otherwise, the game is going to continue to die. Many other games do ‘teams’ way better than WoW, and these restrictions are leading to the death of your faction.
Well, I need the Horde to actually not be a pushover faction meant only for the Alliance to beat up and feel good about themselves, or I need a neutral option. Looks like neither of us are going to get what we want. Blizzard seems intent on not listening to any of its playerbase.
If people are so against abolishing factions, then they should be fine with those who dislike factions being given the option to go neutral in another phase. I’ve dealt with the faction stuff long enough and have seen the forums explode over arguments on ‘what options or race should go to what factions’ that I’m going to have a perma-headache.
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Umbric for High King. He throwin’ folks into the Void without carin’. Dude is metal af.
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It’s not as simple in the real world to just exit or why wouldn’t all these people in that area just leave rather than endure a lot of the things they endure/they weren’t given a choice to be born into all of that and they become a part of it that’s deeper rooted and complicated than a simple choice. The big difference is that a person does make the choice in real life to choose this game and It’s likely much easier to unsub from a game and exit the game than escape the situation in real life.
But who says the Horde isn’t an actual enemy of the Alliance and vice versa, all it could take is someone like Sylvanas as Warchief of the Horde or some crazed/possessed zealout king on Alliance and they can definitely be a massive threat and hence an enemy to each other. As long as Sylvanas is a leader of Horde they are my enemy for example. We’ve beat all those other factions over and over I feel like I’ve fought them more than I actually have the Horde. Are they even big threats at this point? It seems more like going through the motions whereas the Alliance/Horde could actually be legit threats to each other. The Alliance/Horde have teamed up to literally take out threats to the universe, what could pirates and these scattered factions present to them. I’d be more threatened by the Horde than any of those.
Yes… but things can change and grow in a certain way in particular in a game where people are controlling how things change and grow. Keeping Elves on Alliance and exploring and expanding that identity is a choice/putting Elves on Horde is a choice. These choices expand and cause the game to grow in a certain way.
I’d be okay with exploring some of those thoughts and options. I’ve long thought about neutral factions and things like this and wouldn’t be opposed to some of those ideas. I wouldn’t even be opposed to the faction walls crumbling, IF, and that’s a big IF as I said and explained before that it’s done in a way that expands and grows out of the identity and continuity of the game and community. I’m all about giving people as many options as possible. If we can find out and explore ways for both of us to be happy and get close to what we want, and then also another two people, and two people more and so forth and so on, I think that would be great. We clearly both have passion in our preferred visions I’d like to see if both things could find a way to get there.
Oh come on!
Umbric is not King worthy!
Thankfully she is no longer leading the Horde and hopefully never will be again. Prior to the tree burning and the pointless war she sparked, I was okay with her as warchief, but following that, everything went up in flames (sigh)
- The Void lords
- Extremely controlling light entities (Xe’ra, AU examples)
- The ongoing scourge rampage we have yet to control.
- Dreadlords.
- Any planet we happen to visit or visits us that are hostile.
- The gigantic sword in the center of our planet.
- And if we defeat all of the above which each could earn its own expansion, smaller threats like hostile pirates, thieves, ACTUAL evil people we need to defeat, poachers, and any manner of small-scale threat is something we could take care of.
Possibly a lot, that depends on story advancement. Who’s to say these ‘pirates’ aren’t just as powerful, studying the movements of both factions, implementing their tech, what have you? The ‘alliance and horde’ being all powerful and dominant could be undermined this way.
Which is what they did, yes. If they’re going to expand Alliance elves, they’d better expand Horde Elves too. Not saying they won’t, but I’m hoping they listen to both sides of this issue. It feels like Blood Elves have been shoved into yet another box but that’s a different rant for another thread.
I had the idea of a ‘faction war’ phase where they would make it so you’d never be group with another faction or see them in your city. Sort of like warmode.
Other idea is ‘neutral guilds and PvE’, where someone could pick ‘never match me up with a multifaction group’, and rather than it being a phase, the opposite faction would simply not be allowed in other major cities.
I’d be fine if the faction war stayed and was expanded if I was given an opt-out option for my character. Battle for Azeroth left a horrible taste in my mouth. I can’t stand Sylvanas, nor what she did, nor the general box my characters were tossed in during that. They would be 100000% completely against the tree burning and war in general, and would have saved Night Elves. Sadly, being ‘Horde’, the game narrative anyway painted mine as just pure evil with no nuance 
(yes I could say that didn’t happen in roleplay, but it’s still annoying when the night fae want to gut you for something you never supported in the first place)
I’ve played mine as neutral for a while at this point, so hopefully there will be something for everyone, for factions or not, going forward. Time will tell.
Edit: Also yes seeing stuff from this thread added to void elves would be lovely, forgot to mention that. I especially want starcursed hair and/or eyes.
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He deserved a whole freaken expansion. Not to be dropped into a single content patch.
We could have actually gone to the Emerald Dream as a zone and fought of the Black Empire with phasing between N’zoth’s dreamscape and an updated old world.
We could have had Azshara as a final boss for BFA as well, after another War patch for 8.2 and replacing the Horde/Alliance invasions for Naga ones in 8.3. Giving her a much better presence as well.
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The “elf identity” of the Alliance was basically obliterated by WC3:TFT.
Not our fault you people refuse to aknowledge that happened. Stop trying to reduce narrative plots that are interesting and actually a reflection of irl conflict (how many nowadays nations were mortal enemies a couple of centuries ago, yes?) to cosmetic stuff that´s not even original to this game but from other franchises (pretty elves becoming allies with the ugly Orcs was waaay more interesting than them staying as glorified Legolases… less racist tropes there, too).
Vanilla Wow literally started just after WCV3:TFT… No Kingdom of Quel´thalas allied with the Alliance, dear. I repeat: you guys refusing to aknowledge the portions of the story that did NOT went the way of the “LotR cheap ripoff” does NOT mean your headcanons are in any shape, way or form a true reflection of the objective identity of the factions at the start of the game.
Heck, if this game had kept the status quo of WC3, both factions wouldn´t have gone the way of the “stupid good and the stupid evil” but pretty much as gray entities with both heroes and martyrs and scummy villains equally portrayed in both sides of the story.
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its a 3-way! holey rusted metal batman!