“reforging” you ask? no no no… that would be too simple and admit they made a mistake removing reforging. So in Blizzard fashion lets make an entire new way of telling you “your going to like the gear you get” and whats this new fabulous system you ask? Secondary Stat Diminishing returns.
thats right eventually you will need so much haste rating for 1% increase that your going to be happy when you get a terribly stated crit/mast piece because your well into 40% DR on haste.
Because admitting your wrong and just bringing back reforging is so much harder than introducing new gearing mechanics every expac, sure this is going to create new issues of never trading pieces of gear to guildies because “that terribly stated piece will be good once i hit a harsh DR on my good stats, so ill just throw it in the bank rather than trade it away” and now new players have no conceivable away of understanding the value of a piece of gear unless they know all there ever changing stat DR ratio’s. But never mind that and never mind reforging because apparently that was a more difficult system to comprehend.
I guess it depends on the content you’re doing and whether or not your spec is good in PvE and PvP.
As a healer, I can easily do a +15 Mythic in my “PvP” set and I don’t have any interest in going higher than that. I guess if I wanted to do +20’s or something that would be a different story, but that is something you participate in after you’ve already geared up regardless. At this point in the expansion, I doubt Mythic raiding would be an obstacle either. I don’t have to min/max for PvE because at some point you’re going to outgear the boss, but you never out gear your PvP competitors by much.
Sure, versatility is usually substandard in PvE for most classes but it is quite often not the worst and you still get to stack 2 stats. I’m sure some classes/specs have had it worse than others, but my personal experience in the specs/content that I’ve been doing, it hasn’t been an issue. At most, I switch out a trinket and maybe a ring.
If you are in a good, dedicated raiding guild at the beginning of an expansion, I guess this is an issue, but honestly this hasn’t come up for me.
Right, I do keys above a 20 and I’ve been clearing Mythic N’zoth but those aren’t entirely necessary, you can do your weekly +15 and it’s super easy to deal with in bad gear, hell I can even carry at least one person on an alt in a 20. However any player that does PvE and wants to get into PvP will still want to have a different gearset for PvP which is my point. No matter what you’re going to want gear that has versatility on it, or if we look at right now you’re going to either want versatility amps or gushing wounds. You will need a different gearset for PvP than you will in PvE.
This has existed every single expansion, this existed in Classic even before the honor gear (having pieces with more stamina on them were obviously more valuable than just doing the most dps in PvP). It is always going to be necessary for you to have a seperate gearset in PvP and PvE so using the excuse that it’s confusing and leaning towards it being confusing for the PvEr’s is just silly. All this new system has done is made it more frustrating for PvPers.
I think on the video he said it takes 7 weeks of conquest capping to get something, and without a rating it’s equal to LFR ilvl (which is what…out after 2 weeks of the raid being out? So 4 weeks or something?)
The system is completely flawed on an almighty scale, I could go into detail and elaborate points as to why but Venruki has already done that for me/us,
Blizzard, you are killing the fun of your game with making these poor, poor decisions. Nothing was wrong with WoD gearing, the scaling Ilvl was good, the optional setbonuses were good, the starter (honor gearing > conquest gearing) was good.
If you dare release the game and then bring in the changes we are asking for in 1 or 2 major patches times it will already be too late.
Stop attacking your players with terrible gearing systems that forces people to not have fun.
You’re completely missing the point that PvP gearing was a certain way for 4 expansions and suddenly with Legion/BFA the old method of getting BIS gear exclusively through PvP is an issue according to Blizzard
We have never had an explanation as to why the old system was bad
If you were raiding at the beginning of 8.3 and using whatever random corruptions you got while you did PvP, you were still probably better geared than most people. Correct me if I’m wrong, but If you were a dedicated raider and collecting full sets of corruption gear after the vendor came out, then I expect you were probably already downing N’Zoth with the gear you had.
IOW, if you switched to a full corruption set with 475’s optimized for PvP, it seems like most classes/specs could still kill N’Zoth no matter what corruptions you needed for PvP. Maybe you are still min/maxing a PvE set because you are carrying guild alts or running +20’s but this seems like a bonus sort of thing - a choice rather than a necessity.
Frankly, as long as we have PvP scaling, min/maxing for PvP is going to be a crapshoot. Just because we are collecting gear we think will help us in PvP, that doesn’t mean it’s the case. At one point I would’ve thought you needed all the gems of the right stat for PvP, but apparently they didn’t matter much, if at all. Between diminishing returns and PvP scaling, I just don’t see fussing about this much once stat amps are gone - just slap on your highest ilevel gear and go to war.
Even if we get teams of unpaid volunteers to research how the scaling is working, Blizz can still change how scaling works with any new minor patch without warning or even mentioning it. I mean, is that higher ilevel piece with more vers going to make you tougher or is it actually going to cause you more damage due to PvP scaling? We don’t know and can’t know for any longer than the time between minor updates.
Just let that sink in before worrying about optimizing stats for PvP…
I can’t comment on how this will work on SL, but I expect it will be similar. Dedicated PvE players will be ahead of the curve with better trinkets and the effects of min/maxing stats for PvP are probably minimal and/or unpredictable.
I want to try and be constructive but this quote makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about. The difference for example between a 475ilvl Destruction lock with full Crit>Mastery gear (and stat amps) vs one with full Haste>Vers gear is hugely significant,
If you seriously think stats don’t make a big difference then to me it indicates you don’t really play the game
I’d also like to say that if you think it comes more down to skill then you could still make the same statement if the BIS stats gear was available in vendors, there isn’t really a correlation to what you are saying when it comes to talking about whether PvP gear should be best in PvP with best stats
PvP is an important part of the game! I don’t want to be a second class citizen anymore! I don’t have as much time these days… so I’ll just quit if I have to grind PvE just to be READY to be competitive in arena. Nevermind, that I then need to actually practice arena to be good at it. There are really good players who want to play, but don’t because it’s the biggest time sink and ultimately unsatisfying.
It’s important to remember that WoW is an MMO RPG that focuses around PVE content, especially in recent years. Since PVE is considered the “main game”, it does make sense that you would have to go through PVE in order to be the very best.
It’s exceedingly obvious that blizzard doesn’t care about the actual players of their game anymore and rather feeding the gameplay metrics they deem important is their top priority. It’s corporatism through and through
The people who disagree are wannabe game developers who obsess over creating some kind of “utopia” of a game completely disregarding what a community actually wants
Completely selfish opinions, if PvPers get their way it doesn’t affect PvE players in any way yet they still disagree
Then the issue is exasperated even more as suddenly your base vers matters even more (a bit like Vers amps this season) which makes it even more of a requirement to have BIS stats
The solution in reality is a form of PvP power/resistance or iLvL upscaling for PvP gear when engaged in PvP combat
You’re quoting something I said about Shadowlands and using examples from BFA. Do you have the numbers on the differences with pvp scaling for destro locks in SL? Do you know for a fact how PvP scaling will be applied and/or change in SL? If so please share your knowledge.
Stat amps make things pretty insane right now. I run around with about 60% haste and it’s a different game. But stat amps are going away and stats will be getting diminishing returns SL. SL is what this thread is ultimately about (even though we have been discussing how things worked in BFA as well).
Given the fact that we don’t know how PvP scaling is/will be working or might change and the fact that stats will get diminishing returns. Min/maxing stats is not necessarily going to be that helpful.
For example, if you have a one piece of gear with slightly better stats than another piece of gear with a higher ilevel, can you tell me for a fact that is going to be an improvement in PvP in SL? I don’t think you can. It’s going to be complicated and even when we figure it out, it could change as soon as the next patch.