Vashj Only 1 shots with Shoot If tank "Gets" MCd

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
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We’ve been getting tons of unlucky deaths on vashj that just spiral into a wipe and I’ve been working with some guildies to go through logs and figure out what the hell is going on.

So I went through basically every log of the top 40 guilds, specifically the p3 wipes, because it’s the most likely place to see this demonstrated. Because when lots of people get 1 shot the raid tends to wipe.

So in every log where vashj casted Shoot on raid members besides the tank it was in 3 situations.

1: Start of p3 and the tank doesn’t get threat. Vashj just shoots a healer or something because they have threat. Nothing weird here.

2: You don’t have freedoms or something on the tank. Vashj walks back and shoots someone. Totally fine

3: Vashj on persuasions will sometimes just drop threat on the MT for multiple seconds causing her to shoot or melee random raid members.

I checked every one of those logs for persuasion casts and what do you know. If it’s not one of the first 2 situations, which are fine, it’s always when she casts persuasion. I have a clip of our guild MT being off the threat table for TWELVE seconds. One of the other clips he’s only off for 3 seconds.

That’s the only thing I can figure out. If you think you have a log that proves this idea wrong then please post it for me. That’s what I’ve been looking for. Her shooting someone that’s not the tank, when the tank is in position, and it’s been a bit since a persuasion(seeing as the threat drop can last up to 12 seconds).

Our theory on why it’s like this is Vashj is attempting to MC the main tank, can’t because afaik the tank cant get MCd, then it drops threat as if she did MC him, and eventually it comes back.

If it is the case that this can only happen sometimes on persuasion then it’d offer an easy way to work around it. Just have someone else stay 2nd on threat somehow, or bomb heal 2nd on threat and hope they live through it.

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Nice work, add it to the heaping pile of bugs list. I suggest you post this on bug report forum

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Its literally on the “Not a bug list”

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They’ve had things on that list that did turn out to be bugs.

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I can’t think of any? What are some examples?

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There’s a difference from ‘this is a mechanic, its how it works’ and ‘this is the mechanic, but it is not working as intended and making the fight harder’.

What Vashj should be doing (according to Blizz):

  • Lady Vashj can and often will decide to wield her bow and begin using her Shoot ability on random players other than her current threat target.

What Vashj is doing right now:

  • When Lady Vashj is casting Persuasion on the Main Tank, which doesnt work as MT can’t be MC’d, his threat is wiped off the table as if he was MC’d (This is the bug) and she will begin using her Shoot ability on random players and targetting the next in threat after the MT, and leads to raid wipes.
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I think you’re just confused on the mechanic. Vashj never wipes threat. Shoot however, is not always threat based. It will sometimes target a random person. The threat table is unaffected however.

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The randomly shooting part is the P3 mechanic, it’s working as intended. No arguments there.

But the bug that OP and others are complaining about is that when she uses Persuasion on the MT then decides to shoot random raiders, she completely drops the MT’s threat as if he was mind controlled (he can’t).

She shouldn’t be wiping threat on the MT. She’s supposed to still have threat on the MT even if she’s shooting a random raiders.

Something in her code isn’t checking right. As it should be:

  • IS (TANK) MIND CONTROL IMMUNE? Y/N?
    -YES: NO MC.
    -NO: APPLY MIND CONTROL AND WIPE THREAT.

And what’s going on is:

  • IS (TANK) MIND CONTROL IMMUNE? Y/N?
    -YES: NO MC. BUT WIPE THREAT AS IF HE IS.
    -NO: APPLY MIND CONTROL AND WIPE THREAT.
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KT has an acknowledged threat drop bug associated with casting mind control.

People are reporting a threat drop bug during Vashj’s mind control.

you dont think there’s a chance they’re related? I think it’s extremely likely that they are confusing bugged behavior with an intended mechanic, unlike KT which doesnt have a random targeted attack to confuse his bug with.

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Hey man could you link me a log of an attempt that highlights the behavior you’re talking about? I’d like to sift through it myself as well. Thx

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I found an example with a different theory:

 https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3vBbcJw6Ryd1PMHW#fight=12&view=replay&hostility=1

Watch that replay at 0.5x keeping Vashj targeted starting at the 8m mark.

At around 8:05 you see her cast persuasion, she is still targeting the tank. She gains blessing of sacrifice from MC’d pally, still targeting tank … and THEN the tank gets targeted and hit with a direct hit by a Sporebat’s toxic spore and she immediately changes target for no apparent reason. Begins to mow down high DPS targets one by one as if there was a complete threat wipe.

Shoots Hunter
Melees Warlock
Shoots Warlock
Shoots Shaman

One after another.

I think it might actually be the toxic spore’s direct hit wiping threat.

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Ok… But the symptom of that would be Vashj randomly meleeing people. And I’m positive we/every other raid would have noticed that REALLY FAST. Like… melee randomly getting one shot and/or a raid boss running off after a lock isnt the kind of thing you miss… Unles you can show where she is meleeing after an MC, pretty sure this isnt happening

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Correct. Which is a documented but.

Correct. Which is documented as not a bug/consistent with vanilla.

Again… if this was happening we’d see her meleeing people like you do on KT. The KT drop is SUPER apparent… there’s just no way you do the boss and don’t notice it. If Vashj were randomly one-shotting people… we’d notice. Shoot is a seperate mechanic which is not (always) threat based, as documented in the notes

Slow it down at look at 8:06. You can clearly see her casting entangle on the MT which is what causes the “threat drop” as intended. She then casts a multishot into a shock blast (not threat based) into a couple shoots (not threat based, particularly after an entangle) into a static charge into a shockblast (on the MT) into another entangle shoot etc…

Certinaly a rough sequence… but none of those abilities are threat based/indicate a threat drop

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If you check the actual logs, the tank was immune to tangle. Completely irrelevant.

Now explain the melee hit on the warlock, I’d love to hear that mental gymnastics. That is textbook proof of a threat drop. She didn’t go back to hitting the tank until she was taunted.

 https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3vBbcJw6Ryd1PMHW#fight=12&hostility=1&type=damage-done&source=494&ability=1&view=events

Melee attacks are 100% threat based. In 8 minutes she never melee’d anyone but the tank, and never had more than 5s between melee attacks during phase 1 or 3.

… Then suddenly over 10s between melee attacks, while one-shotting 4 players, then melee’ing a warlock before getting taunted.

If you cant see the obvious by now, you dont know how to read logs.

There were only 2 notable events before that happened; persuasion was cast, and the tank was hit by a sporebat. There are no other explanations other than one of those 2 things caused a bugged threat drop.

This is just flat out wrong. Shockblast is completely threat based. The ONLY thing that isn’t threat based on this fight is multishot. Amazing that you would say that, considering of the 7 shockblasts she landed while the tank was alive … 6 were on the tank … and the 1 was during that window of dropped threat.

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seems like Vashj and KT have the same bug where when they try to MC the main tank it fails but still wipes threat.

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sounds exactly like the kind of bug modern day blizzard would create, lol

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I dont understand how anyone can think its a normal mechanic for a boss to fire at a ‘random’ target which hits for 15,000 dmg on cloth. Go ahead and try to name one other mechanic in the entire game that is a guaranteed death on a random player every ~15s. Obvious bug is obvious.

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That’s literally exactly what it says in the “not a bug” thread. Like literally… It probably was a bug in OG TBC, but since it was in OG TBC they’re keeping it as to not nerf the diffiulty

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Then why isn’t it random? Why is it only firing at the next highest threat targets? Because its not a mechanic, its a threat drop. The classic devs are imbeciles that dont know what theyre talking about.

Outside of that 15s window of threat drop she fired her bow 7 times before the tank died. 6 of those times she fired on the tank. The odds of that being random are zero. Shoot is a threat based attack like every other one.

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You’re still not understanding… It is usually BUT NOT ALWAYS targetted at the highest threat target.

Working as intended