Nearly ever spec has a dot and vanish will now only provide stealth for 1.5 seconds down from 3.
13 Likes
It’s the guaranteed stealth mechanic but yeah, either way that’s rough, that’s barely even a whole step away from where you vanished. Its so quick that all they have to do is instantly launch an aoe and it’ll break us out.
I guess i could see this coming since stealth has been so broken with the constant popping out all expansion and our lazy rogue dev refuses to do anything useful for us. The problem is though for the Sub spec, it still doesnt seem like they want their damage anywhere outside of stealth windows or Dance windows. So this hurts Sub the most.
Why play Sub when i can have a much more fun time staying outside of stealth rolling my bleeds on everyone as Assassination and just waiting for a Kingsbane burst window
7 Likes
#RoguesCantHaveNiceThings
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I have 6 dots to maintain as a BM hunter
The vanish nerf is to off set increased time of Subterfuge and 2 potential charges of Vanish from the class general tree.
Time will tell if this is another MOP scenario where they revert the nerf a bit or it sticks.
6 Likes
How does that play into vanish not letting you break its type of stealth compared to subterfuge which works separately outside of vanish? Sub already gets 2 vanishes but it seems to be fine with our current subterfuge and even not talenting subterfuge, we still get our time in stealth after vanishing so it doesnt break so fast from something in the air
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Im confused slightly at the wording of this my man. Subterfuge will grant those 6 seconds regardless of breaking out of vanish or stealth.
Ex: you opened on some joker (subterfuge 6s) and decided to vanish bc a warlock got a slick fear and that bum fell out of combat so you decided to sap and then reopened (dots or not - you gain the additional subterfuge for a total of 12 s if everything went perfectly.) Then if nightelf , you shadowmelded and gained it again for 6s more) works for any of us rogues.
Some shaman breaks your vanish with root totem/ druid used mass roots when you vanish or stealth - you will gain 6s of subterfuge.
A mage ROFrosts you and you mashed stealth the moment you fell out of combat - you gain 6s of subterfuge.
If Warlock pets somehow didnt catch you at their suspicious mount speed and you stealthed - you gain subterfuge whether dots or not on us etc. its a good move through using solid awareness.
1 Like
Because the 3 second stealth from vanish is the hidden modifier that makes it to where when you vanish, NOTHING is supposed to break you out of stealth when it comes to damage/healing (flare and whatnot still will of course).
From the wording of the change, that is now reduced to 1.5 seconds. Subterfuge has no factor on how long that special vanish-level stealth lasts for
4 Likes
Exactly, it’s not about subterfuge. Maybe, just maybe when we use vanish, we want to run away from fight? 1.5s is just impossible even with cloak.
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- earthen grasp and flare always have yep.
- rooting effects have been purposely breaking vanish the entire expansion like evoker brick road thing and mass roots from druids (if timed well). They aren’t going to do us a solid here man.
Subterfuge never affected vanish’s window. Subterfuge in early mop gave 3s of stealth without being visible where we could fire off on people and that was quickly changed as it was definitely ridiculous.
Vanish is only reduced by 1.5s to accommodate for 2 vanishes being available. While frustrating, we deal with it as mature rogues. If it becomes an actual issue, devs will probably revert it but totems and stuff aint going to change and will continue to break vanish anyway.
I have zero idea if druids were affected the same with their incarnation re-prowls but /shrug
Going to just have to lock down the dudes that can cause trouble first then safely vanish and determine if veil is useful at that moment or if you can get away with a priest shielding us and stepping / grapple hooking out to not burn veil amped cloak.
Ex: gouging a ret before he can wake of ashes / that hammer thing from the sky that blasts an area / divine toll as yes a 1.5s window will be tight but will emphasize tighter planning escape routes.
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I remember a similar issue in MoP but there was a glyph to extend the immunity duration. Like I said we will see if things evolve or stay pat regarding Vanish.
Yeah I am thinking the same thing that if it becomes an issue like in MoP they might revert.
Maybe, but I cannot reasonably think of why it “would be an issue” for grounds for them to legitimately revert it. Rogues screeching like monkeys as other classes are doing isn’t rational or reasonable.
Abilities will still break stealth (intended and fine I guess) and they aren’t going to change those either so people are going to have to learn to adapt anyway.
2 Likes
That is why the trade off is the second vanish IMO. That is what happened in MoP where BlizZard said you can have prep baseline and second vanish. But I think they removed the vanish immunity glyph for WoD.
NON Rogues complain that Rogues being able to cheap shot spam but also having an easy time to restealth.
I guess in arenas that is possible but in world PVP and BGs it is not so easy to do so. But the second vanish has always been clutch in world PVP and BGs because of so many DoTs flying around with super long durations (DK plauges) that the vanish immunity whether 1.5, 3 or 5 second didn’t make a difference other than a guaranteed chance for a cheap shot/sap landing. But Subterfuge has caused changes to how the devs balance Rogue stealth and vanish since MoP.
2 Likes
think that’s execution sentence
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Personally i would have rathered that if we took the second vanish talent, then it would change the 3 second to 1.5 second. If this was their idea, then they could have given us a choice. Instead they now force us to take double vanish because of this change.
Rather annoying when they make changes and those changes essentially force you to go in the direction they want. Same thing can be said about pvp talents. Everyone has almost exactly 2-4 talents that are worth using while having like 10 total (the rest being dogwater noob-trick talents)
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I agree because there should be a choice. But like the addition of shadowheart talent the rest of the healing talents are balanced around that new “budget”. Similar problem with so many energy talents scattered everywhere.
Vanish is under new budget constraints because the increased length of subterfuge with talents and two charges of vanish in the general tree. So yeah it is a round about way for BlizZard to say you must take two charges of Vanish.
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Yeah , fat boy abomination will /has always broken stealth and vanish with his fart aura regarding dks.
“Patience… discipline” - Forsaken guy has a point fellow rogues.
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This justification makes no sense.
We use vanish to escape. offensively we use shadow dance at the beginning.
Subterfuge in most situations is lost as it is overlaid by shadow dance.
Probably a dev who doesn’t know the class.
7 Likes
That Dev is also doing DH design, you cant expect anything good for rogues from that guy…
6 Likes