Plenty of opportunities to use subterfuge as a vehicle to build cb pts and stun /disrupt things before committing to deal real damage. It isn’t always 1:1 “everytime x”. Far better to have and not need than need and not have tools.
Ex: stun demon wwe felguard guy , kill earthbind and store some combo points/ spook some goon into using a wall for zero reason / sap out of random cc some warrior decided to intim shout. Situationally definitely calls for it instead of committing shadow dance. Subterfuge is a very flexible tool.
Ex2 :
adapting to hunter’s upgraded multi stun with intim where some goon accidentally stood near you being a pickle that they are and got you stunned as well (reduced duration since you are a secondary target) and can adapt with the rest of subterfuge as you see fit. Or their new flare that prevents stealth for 3s after coming out of it and we can use subterfuge as we see necessary once again and assess a situation before committing cds.
Yeah it stinks about vanish but far better than returning to old days where there was no cover at all. Its also nice assassins and outlaw can make use of it as they see fit. Its foolish to think people are not going to respond accordingly as soon as we stun / start stabbing the heck out of someone.
People are going to have multi stops when we vanish. Even if it were 3s, ol shaman boy is still going to totemic recall and throw down another totem to goof vanish (if they are intelligent). An evoker is going to lay a road faster than 10 years of atlanta road crews “working” on the airport and break vanish.
I don’t logically see how having less and assassins getting less ways to escape for 3s of something someone is going to likely break is better than access to forcefully being able to
have a second vanish to kite and pull someone away when they commit too far
second vanish to potentially sap out if one is slick and black jack the heck out of them
have access to emergency soothing darkness for 10% hp (before mortal wounds effects / dampening).
potentially save a cloak or evasion with intelligent positioning or use etc.
potentially save a team mate while preserving your damage and still bank 1 vanish (have to space them out for sure, it aint cheap and is situational)
Im not challenging the way you think but this is definitely a net positive vs dance going “ IM HERE LOOK AT ME IM BURSTING HEHE” or everything being locked to dance that has plagued all 3 of us in DF.
I know what we can do with subterfuge, the point is to use subterfuge as an excuse to nerf vanish doesn’t make sense because most of the time we use vanish to escape.
This random nerf for no reason has been a huge pain in my butt. No more than I vanish, Im out of stealth again. Warriors can charge me, range can dot me. It has become pointless to push stealth with this nerf.
Yeah def uncool,
Divine toll at least wasn’t ripping me out of stealth / vanish yesterday.
Druid swarm stuff will still find you and chase you, shadow priest ghosts will, and warlock malefic rapture will break stealth as well. There is some affliction thing that has a 100yard aura (don’t remember the warlock ability on the hooks on wowhead) but it will break you out but not deal damage unless you are the direct target.
It seems to be constantly spawning in back of the dk from what I see, so if going in for a sap you’d have to go in from the front or side off a distract and the distract would have to hit the abom.
The abom can be summoned with no target and it will auto attack anything close to it while not on command, but it does respond to the pacify stance.
If you have dot on yourself the vanish as a defensive is now completely useless and nulified as you are exposed right after using global for vanish, the 1 second is not enough to even run away from range.
I dont know what kind of dumb head came up with this idea to nerf vanish, but it completely kills our most valuable defensive…
If youre getting ONE shot by rogues in the past OTHER than when they were actually 100% broken and obbviously
OP (Shadowlands Season one). Then youre plain bad, countering a rogue especially Sub rogue during burst windows its critical. Disarming dance windows, stunning them without trinkets and bursting. If you cant counter rogue openers when they are bursting, youre plain bad And its a skill issue. PEOPLE dont want to learn anymore. They just want to smash buttons and zug zug. Pvp is dead in retail. Rogue in general felt best in Cata-WoD
This has made vanish useless. If you vanish with any spell that is still in mid air, its instantly broken. Any aoe spamming or just one aoe is enough to counter vanish now. Even trying to vanish and sprint straight away and you still get hit by the aoe. This is prob the worst change imo as far as rogue changes go. Vanish is our main way to survive. We cant trade blow straight up like other class. If that’s what you want then buff the crap out of our Def and give us absurd self healing like every other class…
