The time and repetitiveness of preparation for Naxx raids puts a very much real strain on people, despite the tasks being rather menial in nature. It is not all that have the mental stamina for it. If it was easy, all would do it, but they didn’t.
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Good explanation here.
Legion was pretty much brain dead for majority of the content, bfa is similar.
Well there are a lot of people who watch videos of how to do something and comment on that its easy even though they never do it, and people who call levels in games easy when they died like 30 times trying to get to the end.
People are handed the win for most of the content mechanics are just as simple as they are in classic as they are in mythic only difference is your managing your class much more in classic then you are in bfa in both you can plan your route.
Only times I died in mythic was because some idiot that would pull mobs that you were skipping that were dangerous I should of kicked that one dude because he caused 8 wipes and he wasn’t even the tank.
Pretty much the same in classic when someone pulls an entire room filled of mobs prematurely it becomes a problem in higher difficulty instances which are equivalent to classic dungeons.
I don’t think many people know what easy is and hard is in general its usually what they want to think.
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I feel like this is a good part of the issue here.
a bunch of people never did any modern raiding except a short trip in LFR once to finish the main story… and think LFR is an accurate representation of modern raiding…
let’s get this right: LFR is tuned around 5 people carrying to other 25. it’s assumed half of the DPS’er are below tanks and only 2 of the healers are in the proper spec… it’s made to be an interactive cutscene so people can get their lore.
it does not represent modern raiding in any way… at the very least, go for heroic mode ( who used to be normal mode)
How did you wipe 8 times in a Mythic+2 dungeon?
Again, I don’t consider mindless busywork hard. It’s just busy work. Whether something is difficult or not It doesn’t take away from any enjoyment you get out of it .I enjoy watching T.V and it takes time, but its not a challenging thing to do.
Well, if we take Magmadar as an exemple… he only have 3 mechanic : enrage, fear and spit fire.
the enrage is something only hunters can do something about, the fear is mostly a tank mechanic, and the fire cover so little of the room you can safely ignore 70% of it.
it’s pretty darn close to a tank and spank.
in LFR, what usually happen is you have 4 or 5 people who actually know what the mechanic are and handle them properly…so the rest of raid can snooze away. in your Jaina example you probably didn’t notice those people handling ballista, or didn’t knew why the boss was getting dragged over barrel in P2, and you might not have seen anything happening in the first intermission because someone sprinted ahead , masterfully navigated the gauntlet and interrupted jaina before you could even understand what was going on… If you are really lucky, you’ll end up in a LFR where nobody know what to do… and those LFR run are glorious. particularly on G’huun.
this is very close to MC where if I’m not one of the very few people who have a particular job, bosses are basically target dummies.
ROFL.
You can eat a lot of mechanics in LFR with almost no real downside. And if you can’t, they will nerf it until you can.
LFR is made to be an interactive cutscene so everyone, no matter how bad they are, can see the lore of the game… it’s not meant to be a representation of actual raiding.
it’s why LFR gear is below world quest (emissary) gear.
It wasn’t hard, in the least. There are so many WoW encounters not in Vanilla that are far more difficult mechanically. There are so many rotations that include more than 1-3 buttons, after Vanilla.
Vanilla wasn’t difficult. Vanilla was a time sink MMO, only.
Basic positioning, basic mechanics, simple rotations, basic PvP strats, basic everything. Doesn’t mean many of us don’t love it but anyone saying it was harder, to try and elevate themselves above the ‘retail babies’ (or justify years of shady p-server action,) is just a deluded person.
LFR gear being below WQ gear is recent, and dependent on timing. LFR, if it “has” to exist, should rewards blues.
I think from the next expansion on, and even for classic, all gear should be white so that we can stop being so hung up on what color the text for the name of it is written in. Seriously… 15 years of this.
Jumping back to your own comment on LFR, don’t use MC “as an example”. Use Nefarion. Use Twin Emps. Use C’thun. Use everything in Naxx besides Patchwork.
I used LFR because people keep using MC.
White, purple, whatever… What it shouldn’t do is make it so that by facerolling and herpa derping through LFR, you can effectively skip most of endgame.
I don’t do a lot of raids or mythics now but I have a lot of achievements that took a lot of time and grindiness to get. Some people now tell me “oh that’s so hard I could never do that!” They weren’t hard, particularly (like 100 reps or the Insane title). They just took patience and grinding. So it depends on your definition of hard, yeah.
I’ve noticed a trend in dungeons and raid to give up really quickly now, like if there is even one wipe now some groups will just quit. Wiping multiple times per boss used to be kind of standard. Okay well at least for me I didn’t play in top guilds. But persistence eventually would get you through to a winning strategy.
How about Thaddius? end boss of the abom wing in naxx, one of the 6 toughest boss? he have 2 abilities, chain lightning (which is just AoE damage you have to heal / can’t avoid) and his polarity thing.
in Eternal palace, the next raid of BFA… they took that polarity shift ability (renamed to frost/poison instead of positive/negative), added a maze gauntlet to it, added naj’entus (first boss of black temple) spear mechanic and put it all on the very first boss… the loot pinata boss.
One of the end-boss of Naxx, after being pumped up by more mechanic, is a loot pinata for modern standard.
You could also point out how taunt-swapping is now a basic element of modern raiding, present in just about every boss, but was the main mechanic of the legendary 4 horseman fight…
or since you talked about C’thun
C’thun VS Zek’voz ( 3rd boss of uldir). both share the same eye beam, but zek’voz’s also overlap with his ‘donut ring’ ability that severly limit space, and danger-puddle you drop on the ground, and adds… still an easy boss.
Legion and BFA is casual friendly. It accommodates new people. People wont frustrate on dungeons because it would look easy as everyone can beat them. End result though is people got bored becoz they were not challenged. Good thing with Legion and BFA, they have Mythic + to have these dungeons difficult. Most casual thought Mythic + is like esports where everything has to be done in speed. It ended up them not attempting Mythic+.
Vanilla is not. Its dungeon mechanics were quite frustrating at start of normal difficulty. You need to be very patient to overcome them.
- Regular 5-man dungeons takes a lot of time to complete. 45 min is considered a fast run… It would take more than that to clear dungeons especially big dungeons like Black Rock Depths… Lower and Upper Black Rock Spire are connected together… you can do them both in 1 run but completing 1 takes a lot of time. Dire Maul has North, West and East.
- Most Trash mob groups has patrols in between. You cant just carelessly pull a trash group coz if you aggro the patrols, it’s a guaranteed wipe unless you overgear the dungeon. Each pull needs a competent puller which is usually the tank. And there is only 1 class who can tank… the warrior.
- Trash mobs respawns. Reaching the final bosses sometimes take hours especially if you wiped a lot. If the group is not that fast, when they wipe, they might encounter respawns of trash mobs at the entrance. Group usually disband when this happens.
- Some dungeons requires KEYS. You cant just do them if you feel you want to do them. You need to find someone who has KEYS.
- Looking for group member has to be done in the city in Ironforge or Stormwind. When someone leaves, you need someone again in Ironforge or Stormwind to look for replacement.
These are annoying features. If you have the patience, go for it. This is the reason the expansions were improved to make the game more appealing to the casuals.
IDK the 45 minute strath run for the tier 0.5 quest was pretty hard unless you massively over geared it.
Yeah, you need to overgear it. Or at least the tank warrior has to overgear it. The warrior has to DPS too. This warrior I have was tanking on his 2H sword. But I was good with stance-dancing with a macro to switch from 2H sword to 1H sword and shield. I recommend a DPS warrior to tank it. Not a prot warrior as he cant DPS. I carried ungeared group with this DPS warrior.
BTW, you would see my gear Tier 0.5 on my profile. I was among the first to have it.
It’s worth noting that overgearing is a tactic that no longer works quite the same since they made mobs to a certain extent dynamically responsive to your gear level.