The most I’m ok with is a premade v premade priority system, i.e the game takes 15 mins to try to match premades but if it can’t find one it then will fill vs pugs. That should reduce the number of premade v pug games without griefing people for wanting to play in groups.
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Id be fine even with a 30 min wait for a Good match.
Tho im likely in the minority because clubbing seals is boring for me.
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I’m not a fan of breaking up people being able to group in an MMO and my opinion of this is not going to change.
I mostly wanted to post in this thread to point something out though.
If you try to “stop premading” people will still find creative ways to group up. This becomes easier as the population size gets smaller.
It leads to people going into premade discords and queue syncing. In other words, calling out queue pops in Discord and going in if enough pops happen at the same time. This has happened many times that I know of and I’m sure many more than this:
- At the start of classic BGs with only single AV queuing being allowed and the alliance premading AV (most well-known) where Blizzard was able to break that based on the sheer volume of people queuing or that wouldn’t have worked.
- At the “end” of classic BGs (so pre-Era but Era didn’t have BGs outside of Friday nights for a while), a few months before the tbc prepatch, where the alliance started premading AV to “turn the map blue”. Popular with geared allies who wanted revenge after getting farmed on alts in AV for so long as horde owned that BG for most of classic. This worked because the volume of people queuing dropped low enough for it to work, but there were (not as known) incendius alliance Premading AV for months beforehand by using queue syncing and being patient.
- Within tbc (which uses currency showing that this is NOT as simple as a “ranking vs currency” issue): When Blizzard removed premades for their “FvF BGs” tests allies started using queue syncing to still group up for AB/WSG/EoTS". This continued until the premading was put back with a “premades prio to go against other premades”. However, people in Wrath still complain about being matched against premades as solo players because the system prios fast queue times over the premade vs premade algorithm.
- in SoM the horde were queue-syncing AV which led to that being “the meta” for a while with only AV games going and no WSG/AB until someone broke that Discord. Then people started doing WSG and AB to a lesser extent and later a new AV Discord got put up and the AV premading by horde started happening again for a while.
Also, it is way easier for the less populated faction to queue sync leading to the more popular faction “getting farmed by premades” so there would still be people upset about that.
Also, ranking or currency (without marks as part of it) would almost definitely lead to AV being the meta and the other BGs being ignored.
People think that it’s as easy as removing premade queuing but when you deep dive into it, the past and reality show what would really happen.
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- “Until someone broke that discord”
Oopsies
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He simply pointed out that the druid was trying to keep up with “the sweatiest of the bunch” by using some of the same tools/consumes that the OP is decrying. Just a little inconsistent of this kitty is all.
It’s always been unrealistic for freshly capped characters to believe they aren’t going to get rolled by the stronger. Destroying the bgs for most everyone isn’t the way to combat what they are experiencing. Patience and keep grabbing upgrades/ranking. It will come.
Or watch and see what the mysterious revamp Blizz has hinted holds.
Part of what happens is that pug vs pug often times can take over 30 mins, while premade vs pug takes less than 10. So you keep seeing premades because they are literally playing more games than solo queuers
People don’t dislike premades as much as they despise how they operate. So, naturally, we blame the game for allowing premades to begin with - not without cause though. Point being the problem is not premades, its the premaders.
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Definitely exploitable, but if you got deserter if you don’t take the queue, you get screwed. So that might help queue syncing.
Do you actually like PvPing or do you just want the rewards? You are not entitled to a “fair fight” in PvP BGs, nor are You entitled to PvP gear. Most people only have an issue when they lose, they NEVER complain when they are doing the rolling. Does anyone feel bad when they demolish another player who has crap gear or is off spec or they are just bad?
THIS, we are playing a 20 year old game with a small playerbase, we are LUCKY to have PvP BGs popping again. Do people really want to ruin this because of their fragile egos?
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Woah woah woah.
People dont want pvp to be fair…
As for the arguement that this would kill the pvp scene, technically its already dying. The numbers will always go down when you require so much as an entry.
Both true and false.
Some of us enjoy a fair fight, I love fair hard fights.
Those other people just want to club seals because they’re power gamers… Its literally why people play elemental shaman, shadow priests and SL locks in world PvP while also packing all the best consumes, eng helms, reflectors, nades, sleepy dust, and LIP, FAP, and LAP.
Make no mistake, not bashing consumes, hell I use em also but vs pugs or in 1v1, lol.
Just like all pve related content, the people who put in the most effort win the pvp content.
You think this only applies to wow?
The pvp scene isn’t “dying” there are regularly almost 10 wsgs up on era every day. What is “dying” to you?
I was like everyone else when I logged in my first server, a pserver, and pvped a lot and didn’t really know what was going on or any strats
I played more and got into groups with competitive people and learned strats I had no idea about and meta positioning etc
As more servers launched I saw the same people in BGs. Adapting to strats taught to me and also stuff I read and watched vids etc.
Fast forward to classic wow and som and I’m still playing with people from years ago. People will get rolled by a team with years of experience and calibration and start whining and flaming and saying it isn’t fair.
It’s on you to get better. You’re in a pug and get smacked, “how can I learn if I get rolled?”
Same way I did. Sucking it up
There are a lot of guides and good videos explaining in depth information for BG strats and positioning for every class. Simplified and really understandable I can give you if you care
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The only concern I have is if it becomes soloQ Rated BGs the toxicity will go through the roof (which is apparently what happened for retail’s soloQ). I already receive hate whispers for all kinds of things. Not healing someone when I’m OOM, CC’d or dead. Not buffing when I join a game that starts as soon I zone in. Not mind visioning the EFC when /target ‘efc’s name’ is out of range. I’m usually the only priest on my team, wonder why…
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Not playing a server with solo q
What many also don’t resize about the vanilla system that no other system offers is that in vanilla when you pug vs Great teams or premade vs Great teams… If you keep your eyes open you can learn new things. I know I have learned a few handy tricks.
May not have been completely clear with that, so let me further illuminate. When in a rated system new players aren’t exposed to Good / Great play, and so their ability to grow is actually held back.
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This is a good point
I will say I prefer rated PVP but that has another set of issues too.
Vanilla PVP is mostly gear based and I don’t think that should change. So R14 really just means a player got into the system on their faction and made max contribution until it was their turn; but that is in itself quite an achievement…
I’m not sure what can be done with Classic PVP that wouldn’t be worse than the current system. Blizzard would have to introduce T3 iLevel resilience gear that isn’t super hard to get over a few months to make PVP “fair”, but as it always has raiders will have the advantage of BiS items.
Precisely.
No reason not to have premades larger than 5 vs other premades larger than 5 for increased rewards.
Have a “raid queue” for double honor and marks. “Non raid queue”’ for regular honor and marks.
Not only would it increase overall PVP participation (lots of people don’t bother playing because of premades), it might actually encourage more premades.
Harsher penalties for genuine deserters/queue-dropping (a brief grace period after selecting a queue can accommodate players that misclick the wrong BG), crackdown on false reporting, and patching abuseable terrain would all be improvements.
If the population is small enough, then it won’t matter. You’ll have the same people in every group.
However, when the population is larger, some sense of randomness is a good thing.
One thing that’s always perplexed me is why haven’t folks just jumped into the in-game voice chat? There’s no need to try to game the system. Those who’re interested in organizing inside the battleground can simply do so with the tools provided. You don’t need everyone to be in voice chat to improve the odds of success, either.
I disagree. Anyone who’s on a random group going up against a premade team is likely to have a bad time. Organized PvP should be its own thing.