Vanilla PvP honor system update

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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Facing premade after premade is a painful experience. The argument of course is “why don’t you form a premade yourself?”… this is not viable on my server because rarely are enough people even on that want to form up.

I have played many MMO’s over the years and seen different things tried to combat premades. Me personally, I like allowing only 2 players to group up.

The pool size isn’t what it used to be and so what you have now are the sweatiest of the bunch premading with T3 gear, FAP, Engineering, etc. etc. and then they are facing off against new level 60’s… one shotting them… where is the challenge in that? Where is the fun? Not sure I understand the mentality.

The most fun I have is PUG vs PUG because then we have a chance.

I am really hoping that the vanilla PvP honor system gets a look at the grouping options… premades should not get the luxory of facing against pugs… if you made it so that anyone grouping with 5 or more, they sit in queue waiting for a premade… then guess what would happen to premades? They would die like they should.

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I wouldn’t object to limiting group sizes to 5 in WSG and AB like it is for AV, but there would need to be some adjustment to the qing system (like a group shuffle) to avoid groups circumventing the system by timing queues on Discord or using spies. Maybe just give deserter debuff if you ever drop the queue or don’t join.

For full premades, maybe have premades go against other premades but for increased honor/marks? The problem with that is the potential for wintrading/exploiting.

Personally, I don’t find premades vs. pugs fun, even when I’m in the premade. Pretty boring, getting fast wins to maximize honor/hour. I do enjoy premade vs. premade, especially if we win.

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No changes plz. This is fixed in retail and wotlk

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You’d destroy the pvp scene immediately by reducing group numbers.

You gotta form a team if you want to compete with people who are putting in more effort to win.

You gotta form a team if you want to raid too, and the guys trying harder clear faster and more smoothly

If you’re a fresh 60 on era well that’s just how it’s gonna be on era. The server is going on 5 years old and everyone has a ton of gear. That’s the way it goes

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There’s a reason why RBGs are one of the C+ ideas floating around heavily. It fits the scene and ranking system perfectly.

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I’m not opposed in the slightest. Anything that encourages people to be better is a + in my book

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How is grouping up with 9 other fully geared, max profession players and spawn camping fresh 60s encouraging anyone to get better?

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That’s era server problems bro.

That doesn’t happen on fresh till later on, when it stops mattering anyways cause by p5 everyone stops ranking.

Era has been around for almost half a decade now. I’m not sure why fresh 60s are surprised the server has a massive accumulation of gear and gold. Why nerf groups because of it? You’ll ask for bandaid fixes for all kinds of stuff the longer it’s up

Think about 5 years from now

Don’t get me wrong era is a great thing to have and play on. But age always shows it’s cracks eventually.

I’ve played with undergeared teams that absolutely roflstomped “max gear and profession” teams.

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No way. The hard-core rankers would still play and usually win, just more slowly because they want R14. Capping groups to five would likely increase participation by people who don’t queue because they face premades constantly.

You can’t compare PVP and PVE because loot is determinative in the former, random in the latter. They are two totally different gear progression systems.

Rated BGs are horrible in retail and would also be so in Classic. If gear was distributed based on rating alone without some measure of time, that would further contribute to RMTs. And what are all those PVP carry teams going to do with that illicit gold? Run GDKPs.

No matter what happens, the matchmaking AI needs to be tweaked. For some reason, the system prefers to match premades vs. PUGs, not against each other. At least that’s my experience when I am doing premades and PUGs.

That’s not even PVP. It’s literally mindless honor farming. R14 goes to the people who steamroll helpless PUGs the fastest.

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Yea premades are pretty lame, I agree… they could more than likely easily remove the ability to do premades or at least have premades only go against premades.

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In truth there is no winning solution here.

On one hand you could do smaller groups, but the result would be the end of more organized pvp.

Having better gear a result for bigger group size is also a no go.

Perhaps an alternative solution would work, randomly on certain days group size max is 3, other days 5, other days 10 / 15

The schedule would be unknown and unpredictable, but this isn’t a perfect solution either.

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I mean… people do need to caliber they expectations too. You are not getting rank 14 whitout an organized group backing you up in a populated realm, period.

But right now YOU CAN GET TO rank 11 LOSING your way into it in whitemane cluster.

And uninronically i beleive u can solo your way to rank 13 in the less populated pve cluster lol.

I do have a major issue with classic pvp system which is decay and tha it forces you to stay in the grind… but soo far, thats about it.
why? Because compared to a rating based PvP the honor system has been extremely LESS stressfull, specially during the av/wsg/ab weekends that even losing you gain honor. Can we win fast? Lets try, We can’t? might aswell lose fast and collect hks pretty simple, fun enough and much less stress compared “WIN or LOSE, Your rating is on the bet!” feeling most competitive games have i hate winning 5 games for +6 rating then lose one and boom lose 40 rating which happens a lot in most ladders.

My experience soo far:
The last AV week i was 57 and rank 7(80%, got ganking farmers and bots in gadgazent<—>ZF path) i decided to make AVs till i get to 60, i mean, i get level, i get honor, i get rep, good combo. So finally exalted and at 60 PLUS rank 9 (85%) Now im rank 10(97%)
I didnt need a single premade and played as ret.

Now i am like “maybe i will dip to rank 12 just so i can keep the 20 stam bonus with 2 pieces” so i swamped to holy reached out people that do premades and occasionaly get invited while also soloing.

The issue is classifying what is “better”. WoW classic pvp is intrinsically linked to gimmicks, quest items rewards and consumables which is just a meme in competitive environment, thats why by late bc (or early wotlk?) everything from potions to eng was completely removed from competitive gameplay.
Also lets not pretend that Jimmy that is pvping 100% of the time never farming but somehow always use LIPs, Faps, Grenades/sappers, magic dust, defias net, flask of petrification at EVERY fight was VERY suspicious and recorrent in 2019-20(aka gold buying your way into ranking).

Anyway i find dealing with a grind that can be attenued better than rating system in a mmo, which can only lead to drama and many undesirable changes,

ESO does it, but thats because you gain nothing ever when you lose in ESO compared to classic pvp where u still get out with something. And wasnt a popular change at all lol.
And i find bizarre the concept of not leting players make group with players to fight other players. This is probably the most cool part of mmos lol.

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Premades in the original Vanilla were not a big issue, because you played with only folks from your realm. So you pretty much, were in your own “premade” of sorts.

When xrealm happened at the end of Vanilla, this system started to fail, as from now on, you were with players from various realms and to some degree languages. It was pretty much impossible now, to meet the same player on your team twice, therefore premades gained a huge adventage.

Based on this, a solo Q would be necessary, the question is just, what happens with all those duo and trio queues? There are not enough players to support something like this, so in the end, a duo and trio, would automatically end up with the 10 / 15 player queue.

We would therefore, help the solo Q, but make it harder for the smaller groups.

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I’m not sure what you mean. You can literally “cheese” raids too with gimmicks and items etc.

Light of elune, diamond flask, avoiding certain mechanics by standing in a certain area on top of each other, skipping tons of trash by wall jumping etc

Consumables and items were removed later and the game started getting boring. All these extra items do is add more abilities and tricks to your character. The pvp tournaments were very popular on classic as well as competitive. Those expansions also played differently. You didn’t need FAPS when demon hunters can grab the flag and literally fly across the entire map and land at the door of their base. Most classes in later expansions have a “built in” FAP. It’s not a good comparison imo

You don’t need a rating or lowering class abilities to be competitive.

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Man you slaughtered the last shred of dignity this kitty had left…

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You don’t need to cap groups. Just make it pre v pre prio. I wouldn’t even log into a server that couldn’t 10v10 cause that’s why I even play the game. I just like to fight other good premades and yes there are a lot of people like me

There are a lot of super fun strats for ab and wsg when fighting another team that also knows these strats and brought all the cons and items they need for an edge. You can always rewatch the classic tournaments and see that they look completely different than random ranker games

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If they should do anything to the Era PvP honor system its to get rid of the ranking style format of gear acquisition. No decay, no competition with your faction - just a massive honor farm with weekly caps.

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There is no losing situation either. Regardless of changes big or small, MMORPG pvp is a memesport.

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Well Era PVE is a joke too. The only challenge is having enough tanks for 4H.

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Why must there be a “challenge”, at all?

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