you’re palying the game wrong.
the intent is for a few players to get it by chance on a kill they do for other reasons.
you’re not supposed to farm it. that’s why you’re not having fun. you’re not supposed to get it. you are not one of the few lucky ones. you are playing W R O N G.
You don’t get to dictate what is and isnt the right game for me nor do you get to dictate what the intent of design is. MMOs have evolved and WoW is at the point where it leans more to a lobby game than an MMO. It will continue to evolve and this is our feedback towards that evolution. You want stupid grinds and low drop rates go play classic.
Don’t make me flex my day 1 status on you buddy.
Let’s not jump to conclusions. I agree with you that he is not entitled to the mount yet he is also right that it shouldn’t take years to get a single mount too. We do not know how many characters the player has and with which transmog it will go.
Aquila non capit muscas.
Eagles are nearly extinct and flies are abundant. Might want to think about that.
There are no underhanded snide remarks (if you feel there were, when I made them that was not my intent anyway). I will extend an olive branch and explain. So, when I said, “…. Specifically to address your literal bottom tier ‘Name-Calling’.”. The reason I said ‘literal’ is because if you look at Graham’s Hierarchy of Disagreement, ‘Name-Calling’ is the lowest tier at the bottom. I even stated later in that same post. In this pyramid, ‘Name-Calling’ is the lowest form of a disagreement – it is the 7th of the 7 tiers. We can use numbers if you prefer, but felt like this was easiest.
Just to clarify, neither one of these comments called anyone bottom tier.
Now, Responding to Tone is the 5th of the 7 tiers (I was going to say mid-low tier, but I we can stick with numbers), which criticizes the tone of the writing. This leads into what we have now where the conversation forces the accused to defend themselves and/or specifically tailor their writing in such a way not to elicit an over-aggressive response. I had hoped with me taking the time to respond to you in a manner where I explain the concept in detail would imply good will - I felt like I expressed a positive feeling in engaging in conversation. This is all I have to say about this – there is no undertone or snide comments. Just the topic at hand.
If you truly believe this, then why are players killing MoP World Bosses thousands of times when they already have a mount of equal value (since they all equal zero value apparently)? If my logic cannot be applied, then how do you explain sentimental value a player has toward an item? How would you explain the negative feeling Mornnah has when the title for Layer 8 is moved to Layer 4? Do Not Nerf Tower Ranger Title 9.2.5
So, there is clearly value here, right? Something is incentivizing players to continue attempting for a mount or a rare set of shoulders to drop – despite the fact that “[they] have earned nothing because it’s not stored on your computer.” What is driving that? I am not really sure why we are discussing this, because rewards are clearly driving the playerbase to do things. People value their time generally, so it doesn’t makes sense to say none of these things have value.
The answer is perceived value, which I will come back to later.
This is only partially correct, but your order of operations are off. For example, if you take raiding, and you adjust the difficulty of the fight, would you take the ‘average player who represents World of Warcraft’? No, you would consider the thoughts and opinions of those who play that specific content. Similarly, if you ask the community, should we introduce an Elite Mythic raid tier, you wouldn’t ask the average player. You may not even ask those among your average raiders. You would ask those who would participate in that content, right? So, your Mythic raiders would be the average that you pull feedback. This all makes sense for Skill-Based Difficulty content, and it is a niche of a niche.
Likewise, playing the RNG game of earning mounts, transmogs, toys, and etc is a category of content just like raiding is a category. We have 800+ mounts, 65,000+ sources of transmogs, 550+ toys, and 7,500+ recipes of content that has a very wide range of RNG to it. Just as most raiders spend time and effort at a Normal and Heroic level, the vast majority of your drop rates are over 1%. However, there are a few items with a much lower chance of dropping. Or there is content that takes an exceedingly long time to complete (maybe weeks or months). These few items are your comparison to mythic raiding. It’s an outlet for some who enjoy this style of gameplay. So, it is not that you are going after a specific niche, but rather your niches (again, in this case raiding and RNG rewards) are so large that they create natural niches within themselves.
Well… let’s actually explain the story. Initially, when the Artifact system was designed, the Honor Levels were character specific. However, whenever Blizzard merged the levels from all the characters’ accounts, there was no way to separate them from that point onward. The reason nobody complains here is because they didn’t give out Honor Levels during the transition. You earned all the Honor Levels you had – even if you completed part of them on another character.
In what way is this comparable to getting the Balance of Power appearance on one character, and then getting them on the rest of the 11 classes? Furthermore, this change was done because players didn’t want to start from zero when it come to the Honor Level system. This effected the participation levels of PvP negatively. Here, if a person doesn’t get Balance of Power on a 2nd character, then no harm is done by not giving them the rest of the appearance, because they were not participating in that content anyway.
I actually don’t like doing this part, but I am going to play the role of the vocal minority, and see what kind of responses you would give. How do you appease those who are unhappy with your suggestions?
What about players who do not have a lot of achievements? Wouldn’t they be left out? So, I would need to grind achievements before I can grind transmogs? What about players who find the achievement system a waste of time, because they don’t like running old raids for old achievements? Isn’t this forcing players to play in a way they don’t want?
What if Ion only plays a Shaman, and he feels obligated to level alts in order to get all the obviously better looking Paladin sets? Isn’t that forcing players through content they don’t want to do?
Oh, great, another currency on another vendor. What if I don’t like the activity necessary to get that currency? Is the currency from endgame content? What if my connection is bad?
What if I hate gold making? Are you telling me that I am forced to either spend RL money or waste time grinding out gold? How is this different from grinding runs in a raid?
So, now I can answer this question. The Communal Value acts as the perceived value of an item within the game. This perceived value is driven by the time and effort players are willing to put into the game in order to acquire this item. Now, the perceived value is just the individual’s perception of value (shocking, I know), but the communal value is what the community’s perceived value. We get this value by the time and effort the average of community (that participate in that niche of the game) have already given to acquire this item. This value is naturally adjusted and finally set as communities participate in this content while it is current.
So, why is a point of reference for this so important? Because through the collective gameplay of players participating in that content, we now have the communal value benchmark. At this point, any reduction in the necessary skill will need to be made up in the form of time (again, taking into account Macro-level and Micro-level). This gives us two things:
So, why should you take my posting into consideration? Because with a system such as this in place, you are not subject to the whims of a player who find achievements a worthless form of measurement for accessing more transmog. Conversely, you are not subject to someone who overemphasis the importance of achievements in progressing your collections. You do not have to argue arbitrary points like, should you be able to receive loot of the same armor type vs should you be able to loot everything with one character. Time-Based difficulty is basically, plug-and-play. Once it is set up, there is little to no maintenance in readjusting the value randomly. Am I saying this is a perfect system, of course not, but it is the most consistent we have at the moment.
The evidence is in someone’s actions. And there are a lot of people that find the Sha of Anger mount worth their time, because they are out there each week killing it. There are others who spend gold cap on it when it appears on the BMAH. So, it seems like it is still worth it to many.
Those that don’t probably have already forgotten about it.
What is fun will not only change from person to person, but from one type of activity to another. If I enjoy a soda, then that doesn’t mean I had fun drinking a soda. If I had fun competing in a race, then that doesn’t mean I enjoyed every footstep of the marathon. Furthermore, one cannot say that I hate sodas, because it wasn’t fun to drink it, nor can they say marathons are not enjoyable, because each step wasn’t a surge of fun. The same is true with various forms of content within WoW. While running the same dungeon, raid, or MoP World Boss doesn’t have the same intensity as pushing a new M+ high, it is still fun and enjoyable to many. Fun and enjoyment can come in many different forms and intensities.
No. Find one person that can say farming the same thing 30+ times a week for over 5 years is fun. Do it.
He won’t, he’s to busy ignoring the facts of sunk cost fallacy, rng slot machine and other things in favor of his ‘value preservation’
It’s a hobby people enjoy because it is a game. Most of us also forget that Blizzard can take our accounts away any moment when either the game gets closed for no particular reason or we get punished. There is no safety net and it’s ultimately the fate of WoW, when they decide not to keep the servers running after the game switches into the maintenance mode.
We all have read news articles about the licenses which have been taken away from customers who bought games, movies and music from Nintendo, Apple or Amazon. World of Warcraft falls into the same situation which why I cannot take all this talk about value seriously. We have no access to our stored characters in the case the game really shuts down so we can inject it into a private server. There is no actual value, only an artificial one. I would agree with the topic if we had more privileges but we do not have them. And ultimately, this brings me to the decision why almost everything should be accessible to all players all the time. FOMO has no place in such a game and others.
Again, your point of view is not the only one and neither the correct one.
The average player does not raid. Well, they do at least one raid, the CPU-generated one in the new starter zone. The developers tried to bind the average players more into the raiding gameplay or why do you think we had so many “cater to the 1%”-discussions in the past? WoW suffers from several problems which can be linked to the leading developers of the game:
Skill-based difficulty content is fine but the content needs to stay accessible for everyone. If they cannot get it now, then in a few years. I do agree with you that they take mythic raider’s feedback into consideration but this isn’t the mass who sustains their paychecks. Top tier raiders are a low priority player group who has too much influence over the game’s design and we saw with the decline of Shadowlands what happens when the casuals move to other games: They started catering to non-raider requests. The true power belongs with the casuals and not the raiders, after all.
So, where do we draw the line? With the averages who do not raid but are here for a story. You can get them into raiding as well but then again, the game has too many problems so an average player will enjoy it. This is likely also why they release the new social contract because their catering to the best and most competent players drives the casuals away.
The ultimate goal is to collect and enjoy in the game, either better armor, achievements or transmog. All of this fine but the game is overdue for another change in rules so people stick longer to it.
The acquisition of vanity items is bad though, similar to how toys are handled. given my posting above about digital goods, the whole philosophy needs to shift in pure enjoyment for the players. Nobody cares about the “thrill of trying” when it takes too long. The Final Fantasy 14 system is perfect. You still need to grind dungeons and raids but you will get the reward sooner or later. The perfect solution, actually.
This topic has nothing to do with my posting, to make it blunt.
Same principle. Do it at one character, unlock the transmogs on all classes. It’s account-wide, after all. An account-wide Balance of Power will work the same way then.
It’s just your twisted way of saying that you have no actual reason against handing it out to players who have already done the content once. Let’s skip this topic then.
You grind achievements naturally by doing content, either old or new. We’re still talking about adjustable unlocks. Place the unlockable slots within the first 250-2000 achievement points and it will be fine. It’s all about making the carrot look good and encouraging the player through a philosophy which can be easily understood by giving them more opportunities and activities to make without forcing them into it.
This is not what I wrote about it. I especially staed “similar armor-type transmogs”, speaking mail, plate, cloth and leather.
You already have done it plenty of times and you will continue to do it in Dragonflight. Don’t see your point here, unless you’re asking for an account-wide currency system which can be accessed with all characters.
This is already happening, so it won’t be a problem. But at least it will make unavailable vanity items accessible for people who didn’t get it for free the first time around. That’s still a better system than removing it.
At the end of the day it is just your opinion, like I have mine. Will people agree with you? I’m sure - but will the majority of players do the same?
You participate in getting the ingame items but you have no claimer rights because Blizzard has it which also devalues them at the same time. Your emotional worth for various items is different from a person who was there earlier or later, so it makes no sense to discuss value at all, if I think about it. From my point of view, nothing you write actually matters because if the game gets closed tomorrow, everyone will realize in what situation they actually were in from the beginning. The best solution would to make the items accessible over time for everyone for all players who either enjoy different parts of the game or weren’t there initially, period.
If you value exclusivity so much, why do you allow selling of runs for gold? Your whole concept of earning it goes out the window. get rid of selling runs or get rid of the concept of exclusivity. they contradict each other.
Those items are an investment. when blizzard finally shuts dow the servers, all the rare pixels will be gone gone gone. It will happen sooner or later.
It must be a rough life to be referring to the sunk cost fallacy while also admitting that you’re actively engaged in it. Care to take a step back and evaluate what that actually means? Why are you engaging in logically flawed behavior?
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No they don’t. Just because someone found an alternative way or in some cases cheated to get what they wanted doesn’t all of a sudden devalue the accomplishment of someone who legitimately earned exclusives.
This is a big topic of discussion for me. People need to be consistent on how they see things and not just change their point of view because they do or don’t have a special rare mount.
Yes it does. What value is something if other people can cheat and get it. The accomplishment is still there but the value certainly decreases.
By that logic pretty much any competition has no value because more likely than not someone has cheated. If someone has put in the time, effort and grind in improving themselves as a player to achieve something, then their achievement has value. Doesn’t matter if it’s decreased or not.
I disagree. It’s a very vague statement because it depends on the accomplishment but if it’s a mount in WoW and it’s hard to get and a bunch of people start cheating, the accomplishment of getting one diminishes.
They don’t.
No one does.
Players choose to.
No one is making them.
Then don’t do it.
It’s that simple.
They are cosmetics, you don’t need them to play the game and with all the cosmetics in the game, you don’t even need them to RP.
How about all the entitled brats get over themselves instead.
If you don’t need it to play and it’s too difficult/time-comsuming/‘boring’ for you to do, then it isn’t for you and you can move on to something more your speed.
It is NOT the same thing as removed quest lines. That is content, not rewards.
Stop conflating the two, they are not the same.
If people are cheating, then that’s on the grounds for being reported, either temp or perma’d and their achievement and mount to be removed from the account. The other player worked for it and got it legitimately
Are you aware that the Brawl Arena is currently open for Horde-players only? You can now easily get both the Bruce mount and the Brawler shirt from WoD. Doesn’t this devalue the accomplishments of the people before? Yes, absolutely. But does it really matter if people took a shortcut now with the higher iLV to get these rewards even faster? No. We do not own these items, we lease them and signed the contract so we have the limited right to enjoy those.